Obama proposes a record 4.1 trillion dollar Budget

Conservative · Feb 17, 2016

mmi said:
Why? Because you say it was? There are two lags here. The first is the time it took for the effects of the GOP SSE Great Recession to play through the labor market. This ended sometime around the end of 2009. Then there's the lag for the effects of the ARRA to be felt. The fiscal changes (increased spending, lower taxes) occurred over a three-year period. Otoh, consumers and businesses also anticipated the positive impact of the stimulus. Only a careful and objective analysis could hope to come up with useful answers to questions about the timing of these effects, and yer incapable of even understanding one, much less developing one.

>>How much of a tax cut did you get

Irrelevant. Yer reliance on anecdotes speaks to yer inability to judge the overall.

>>how did people who don't have a job get a tax cut to purchase things like cash for clunkers?

If yer concerned about people being out of work, why do you continue to support the same SSE policies that led to a near-collapse of the financial sector and the loss of 8.5 million private-sector jobs 2007-08? You advocate for polices that put millions out of work, and then wanna know why the actions Obummer took didn't magically put a car in every garage.

>>You claim he prevented a world wide depression which is nothing more than liberal talking points.

I claimed his polices helped in that regard. Mainstream economists agree.

"In Study, 2 Economists Say Intervention Helped Avert a 2nd Depression," NYT, Jul 27. 2010

>>TARP brought us out of the recession and Obama prolonged it.

TARP played a very important role.

>>CBO said the TARP would affect the deficit by 200 billion dollars.

Where'd ya get that?

>>How much of TARP was repaid in 2009????? 400 billion dollars

Same question. I figure you just make this stuff up. According to this document, $19.5B was repaid during FY2009. So I'd say yer off by a magnitude of about twenty.

Only $475B of the original $700 was made available as the result of a provision in Dodd-Frank, which also prohibited the recycling you keep lying about. So far, 431 has been paid out, and 390 has been paid back. (source)

>>which takes that projected deficit down to 900 billion.

No it doesn't. You have no idea what yer talking about, so of course you offer nothing to back up yer claims.

>>the Obama stimulus which about 200 billion was spent, now we have a 700 billion dollar projected deficit.

I've told you repeatedly that the ARRA took the $1.2T projection to $1.4T.

>>the 192 billion supplemental expenses

This was money to fund the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan during the second half of the fiscal year, funding which should have been included in Bush's budget request. It's 43's responsibility.

>>so now we are down to a projected deficit of 500 billion on Bush's watch which is what Bush budget projected when he submitted his proposal in February 2009

Hilarious. Find sources to support this idea that Bush was responsible for only $500B. You can't, because it's a load of crap.

>>You are a good little leftwing soldier who buys what you are told.

I employ facts. You make stuff up.

>>Too bad the left is making you look foolish.

I'm sure you don't need any help in making yerself appear as what you are.

Would love to hear the legislation in the Obama stimulus that saved the world from Depression. Noticed your article mentioned other things and of course TARP which wasn't Obama's was the biggest issue in preventing the financial sector to fail. I know there must be something in the stimulus but just cannot find it so please some Obama supporter please point me to the part of the stimulus that saved the financial sector?

Conservative · Feb 17, 2016

mmi said:
"In Study, 2 Economists Say Intervention Helped Avert a 2nd Depression," NYT, Jul 27. 2010

.

From the article

In a new paper, the economists argue that without the Wall Street bailout, the bank stress tests, the emergency lending and asset purchases by the Federal Reserve, and the Obama administration’s fiscal stimulus program, the nation’s gross domestic product would be about 6.5 percent lower this year.

Wall Street Bailout-Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 Bush

Bank Stress Test-Beginning in 2007, governmental regulatory bodies became interested in conducting their own stress tests to insure the effective operation of financial institutions

Emergency lending and asset purchases-

A 2011 study by the Government Accountability Office found that "on numerous occasions in 2008 and 2009, the Federal Reserve Board invoked emergency authority under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 to authorize new broad-based programs and financial assistance to individual institutions to stabilize financial markets. Loans outstanding for the emergency programs peaked at more than $1 trillion in late 2008." [2]

I don't see a lot of Obama initiatives in these issues and then there is this

The Obama stimulus- Ok great, he implemented a stimulus program that did exactly what for the world markets and prevented a world recession. Since we came out of the recession in this country in June 2009 before much of the 842 billion stimulus had been spent I just don't see a lot of impact the stimulus had on the world markets and had any impact on the financial sector.

mmi · Feb 19, 2016

Conservative said:
Obama has added over 8 trillion the debt

GOP SSE policies are responsible for almost all of the national debt. Debt as a percentage of GDP, which is the relevant measure, went from 31% to 61% under Reagan and his unfortunate successor. Clinton drove it back down to 55%. Bush43 took it up to 77%. When Obummer came into office, we were on the brink of a worldwide depression. Something had to be done to clean up the terrible mess we were in as the result of policies you continue to support.

There's no magic wand in macroeconomics. Two weeks before the Negro was inaugurated, the CBO projected a deficit of $1.2T. Federal receipts in FY2009 fell by 17%. The only viable option was to do three things:

First, get the economy back on its feet. This was accomplished with a stimulus program (the ARRA) that included tax cuts for individuals and businesses, extended unemployment benefits, and investments in infrastructure projects. CBO reports that this provided five million jobs.
Second, hold the line on federal spending. Outlays have increased by 4.8% since 2009. During those years, Congressional authorizations were one percent less than the president's budget requests, and because of tight administrative management, actual expenditures were reduced by a further five percent.
Third, wait for the labor market and federal revenues to recover. Since Dec 2009, fourteen million full-time, private-sector jobs have been added, cutting the unemployment rate from 10% in Oct 2009 to 4.9% last month, and receipts have increased by 54%.

Over the past five years, the national debt as a percentage of GDP has expanded by seven percent. CBO projects that it will remain flat for the next ten years. Clinton turned big deficits in significant surpluses. Bush43 implemented GOP SSE policies and turned those into massive deficits. Obama stopped the bleeding and has the national economy back on a firm footing.

>>What bothers many is what low standards and poor understanding of leadership Obama supporters have. They always blame someone else for their own failures and by every standard except the low liberal standards Obama has been a failure.

Yer usual pile of rhetorical crap.

>>Bush destroyed the economy with a Democrat Congress and Obama created the poorest recovery on record with a Democrat Congress

I've corrected you on this many times. You are a shameless liar. Republicans controlled the Senate Jan - May 2001, and Jan 2003 - Jan 2007. They had a majority in the House Jan 2001 - Jan 2007, and again since Jan 2011.

>>Only in the liberal world is their lag time for a recovery when shovel ready jobs legislation is implemented the first full month Obama is in office and it take 3 years for those shovels apparently to be created in order to ship out for shovel ready jobs. That defies logic and common sense which is why liberals have zero credibility

Some conservatives have credibility, but reactionaries like you sure don't. The ARRA was not "implemented the first full month Obama is in office" (another lie you keep repeating), it was applied over a three-year period.

mmi · Feb 19, 2016

Conservative said:
Tell me how the "Great Recession" Affected you?

It hurt me a great deal. Eight million jobs were lost 2007-08. Foreclosures tripled 2006-09, from 1.2 million to 3.6. The national debt exploded. As a liberal, I care about other people, and I know a lot of conservatives do as well. Yer being a reactionary makes you indifferent, apparently.

>>people like you who put this recession in the same category as the 81-82 recession

That's not true. The Reagan Recession was severe (GDP 1982 down 1.4%) and lasted for seventeen months, but this last one was eighteen months long and saw output drop by 2.8% in 2009. So I'd say the Great Recession was twice as bad.

>>Fewer Americans were affected by this recession than the 81-82 recession which was compounded by the high misery index.

It's hard to say how many people were "affected" by either, but yer reference to inflation is misplaced. The CPI increased by only 3.8% in 1982.

>>no matter how many times you make the same statement over and over the results don't change

A lesson you refuse to learn.

>>I keep hearing that it was Obama that saved the world from the Great Depression but cannot find the legislation process in the stimulus that benefited the world? Can you point those policies in the stimulus that did that?

I've answered this before. More than once. Here it is again: tax cuts for individuals and businesses, extended unemployment benefits, and investments in infrastructure projects.

>>I don't know where you were in the 81-82

You should know, as I've told you more than once. When the Reagan Recession hit in Jul 1981, I was a graduate student studying macroeconomics.

>>I do know where you were in the current recession and you have yet to tell us how that recession affected you and your family

We've been over this repeatedly. It hurt me and my family very much, because we care about the tens of millions of people that suffered economically as a result of it.

>>My bet is it didn't hurt you at all.

You lose. Again.

>>I keep hearing how Obama faced the most obstructionist Congress since the Civil war but keep waiting for the legislation Obama wanted that he didn't get.

No, you just keep ignoring the answer when it's provided to you. In Sept 2011, Obama proposed the American Jobs Act. Senate Republicans filibustered it. There are of course many more examples. He wanted comprehensive immigration reform in 2009, but the GOP allows itself to be bullied by bigoted morons who blame our troubles on teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs and lazy Mexicans who won't work but are nevertheless stealing our jobs.

>>He had total control of the Congress when we came out of recession and prolonged it for millions yet you continue to spout the same liberal lies.

You say he prolonged it, but the fact is he ended it. You have nothing to offer but the same stupid reactionary lies over and over an over and … . It doesn't seem to matter how many times yer BS is exposed as such, you just keep posting it. As you would say, yer a good little reactionary soldier.

>>Reagan knew how to negotiate, Obama doesn't have a clue and that is a failure in leadership

Reagan had Democratic opponents willing to negotiate. Obummer's had strident ideologues like Scruz and a GOP House leadership that, at least until recently, was very reluctant to stand up to the fifty or so teabugger nuts like Steve King and Michele Bachmann who are such a huge embarrassment to this country.

Conservative · Feb 19, 2016

mmi;1065573790]It hurt me a great deal. Eight million jobs were lost 2007-08. Foreclosures tripled 2006-09, from 1.2 million to 3.6. The national debt exploded. As a liberal, I care about other people, and I know a lot of conservatives do as well. Yer being a reactionary makes you indifferent, apparently.

LOL, you care about other people? You really are something else, much bigger than I ever realized, 8 million jobs lost, all of them yours? What exactly did the Democrat Congress that controlled the legislation and the purse strings do to prevent that from happening? When the recession began there were 146 million people employed and when Obama took office it was 142 million so that looks like 4 million to me but then again you pick and choose the time line you want.

You really have no concept of BLS data or how the unemployment number is calculated and what goes in and what comes out

That's not true. The Reagan Recession was severe (GDP 1982 down 1.4%) and lasted for seventeen months, but this last one was eighteen months long and saw output drop by 2.8% in 2009. So I'd say the Great Recession was twice as bad.

Yes, it lasted shorter because of strong economic policies and leadership something you don't understand. You see results and ignore policies. The 81-82 recession affected a lot more people than this one and you have yet to post how it affected you and your family

It's hard to say how many people were "affected" by either, but yer reference to inflation is misplaced. The CPI increased by only 3.8% in 1982.

High inflation affects every American, the financial bubble not so much

A lesson you refuse to learn.

A lesson I learned in 35 years of business

I've answered this before. More than once. Here it is again: tax cuts for individuals and businesses, extended unemployment benefits, and investments in infrastructure projects.

Is that why employment dropped from 142 million to 139 in two years as those shovels lagged? You have yet to show the tax benefits to business that generated the results you want to credit Obama for. How did tax cuts prevent a WORLD WIDE DEPRESSION? Did all those countries bring their clunkers over here?

You should know, as I've told you more than once. When the Reagan Recession hit in Jul 1981, I was a graduate student studying macroeconomics.

That explains a lot, you had your head stuck in the books and ignored what was going on around you. Macro economics doesn't address human behavior

We've been over this repeatedly. It hurt me and my family very much, because we care about the tens of millions of people that suffered economically as a result of it.

Got it, feelings trump reality

No, you just keep ignoring the answer when it's provided to you. In Sept 2011, Obama proposed the American Jobs Act. Senate Republicans filibustered it. There are of course many more examples. He wanted comprehensive immigration reform in 2009, but the GOP allows itself to be bullied by bigoted morons who blame our troubles on teenage immigrant welfare mothers on drugs and lazy Mexicans who won't work but are nevertheless stealing our jobs.

In February 2009 he actually signed his stimulus package you claim succeeded therefore why did we need another jobs act most of which would have cost the citizens of the states? Comprehensive immigration reform would have done what to employment? You buy what you are told and ignore reality.

Reagan had Democratic opponents willing to negotiate. Obummer's had strident ideologues like Scruz and a GOP House leadership that, at least until recently, was very reluctant to stand up to the fifty or so teabugger nuts like Steve King and Michele Bachmann who are such a huge embarrassment to this country.

Reagan had leadership skills, Obama was a college professor and governs like one.

This is how you respond using the quote function, try it some time

Glen Contrarian · Feb 19, 2016

Conservative said:
I posted the link as to why it was called the Great Recession which turned out to be liberal talking points and a marketing ploy to regain liberal power in Washington. Tell me how the "Great Recession" Affected you? It is amazing how history gets rewritten by people like you who put this recession in the same category as the 81-82 recession which shows just how out of touch with reality you are. Fewer Americans were affected by this recession than the 81-82 recession which was compounded by the high misery index. You see, no matter how many times you make the same statement over and over the results don't change and "your" President is incompetent and an economic disaster.

I keep hearing that it was Obama that saved the world from the Great Depression but cannot find the legislation process in the stimulus that benefited the world? Can you point those policies in the stimulus that did that? Could it have been Cash for Clunkers?

I don't know where you were in the 81-82 but I do know where you were in the current recession and you have yet to tell us how that recession affected you and your family but you do spout DNC talking points. My bet is it didn't hurt you at all.

I keep hearing how Obama faced the most obstructionist Congress since the Civil war but keep waiting for the legislation Obama wanted that he didn't get. He had total control of the Congress when we came out of recession and prolonged it for millions yet you continue to spout the same liberal lies. Reagan knew how to negotiate, Obama doesn't have a clue and that is a failure in leadership

I remember the Reagan Recession quite well, thank you very much...and it affected me nowhere nearly as much as the Great Recession. During the Great Recession, many businesses in my city and county went under - nearly a third of the local mall was vacant at one time - and I went through bankruptcy and had my house foreclosed.

So...no, sir, you really have no clue as to what happened - and what nearly happened - in the Great Recession...and you're forgetting that unlike the Reagan Recession, the GR wasn't just an American recession, but it greatly hurt most of the economies of the developed world. All you're doing is cherry-picking individual parts of the Reagan Recession.

Glen Contrarian · Feb 19, 2016

Conservative said:
Tell us what legislation Obama wanted that he didn't get? Have you noticed the declining deficit you want to credit Obama with? Any idea why the deficit was declining? Before calling anyone else stupid you better stop and pay attention to what is actually going on, basic civics so you don't look foolish

First, I didn't call YOU 'stupid' - I called your STATEMENT 'stupid'. Learn the difference.

Second, if you somehow think that Obama was able to push through whatever legislation he wanted, dude...you really need to get your head out of the right-wing echo chamber. Or haven't you heard of Gitmo? The night before Obama was inaugurated the first time, the Republican leadership held a meeting where they decided that he would not only not get the "hundred-day honeymoon" that new presidents have normally gotten, but that they would oppose in toto EVERYTHING he tried to make happen. It didn't matter what he supported, they would oppose it.

A great example is Obama's attempt to take away the tax breaks that corporations were - and still are - getting for closing factories here and moving them overseas. Why the hell should corporations get a tax break for that???? But what did the GOP do? They successfully fought for the corporations keeping that tax break.

You, sir, have a LOT to learn about what your side has done and continues to do.

Conservative · Feb 19, 2016

Glen Contrarian;1065575062]I remember the Reagan Recession quite well, thank you very much...and it affected me nowhere nearly as much as the Great Recession. During the Great Recession, many businesses in my city and county went under - nearly a third of the local mall was vacant at one time - and I went through bankruptcy and had my house foreclosed.

Many businesses went under due to the poor economic policies of Obama. Why do you blame Bush for the recession and ignore basic civics? What did the Democrats in control of Congress do to prevent that recession? Answer: Nothing, they wanted the WH and what they did after the recession prolonged it for many. If you want through bankruptcy what did Bush policies do that created that> You want someone to blame rather than looking in the mirror just like all liberals refuse to do

So...no, sir, you really have no clue as to what happened - and what nearly happened - in the Great Recession...and you're forgetting that unlike the Reagan Recession, the GR wasn't just an American recession, but it greatly hurt most of the economies of the developed world. All you're doing is cherry-picking individual parts of the Reagan Recession.

And you do what most liberals do blame someone else for liberal failures and ignore the policies that either reduced the affects of the recession or prolonged it. Obama's policies prolonged the recession and it was personal choice and irresponsibility that caused the recession in the first place.

Conservative · Feb 19, 2016

Glen Contrarian said:
First, I didn't call YOU 'stupid' - I called your STATEMENT 'stupid'. Learn the difference.

Second, if you somehow think that Obama was able to push through whatever legislation he wanted, dude...you really need to get your head out of the right-wing echo chamber. Or haven't you heard of Gitmo? The night before Obama was inaugurated the first time, the Republican leadership held a meeting where they decided that he would not only not get the "hundred-day honeymoon" that new presidents have normally gotten, but that they would oppose in toto EVERYTHING he tried to make happen. It didn't matter what he supported, they would oppose it.

A great example is Obama's attempt to take away the tax breaks that corporations were - and still are - getting for closing factories here and moving them overseas. Why the hell should corporations get a tax break for that???? But what did the GOP do? They successfully fought for the corporations keeping that tax break.

You, sir, have a LOT to learn about what your side has done and continues to do.

So now it is the failure to close GITMO that is a problem for you. As for Republicans not giving Obama a honeymoon, Obama got his stimulus passed as submitted and that was supposed to keep unemployment from exceeding 8%. It passed without any Republican support and was implemented. When it failed he implemented ACA which did nothing but allow businesses to hire part time employees and reduce their costs.

How is taking tax breaks away from business going to create jobs? What the hell does your liberal state government do? Seems my state doesn't have a problem getting businesses to move here or stay here Wonder why that is a problem in the state of Washington. TX seemed to weather the recession quite well, why don't you try and figure out why?

Sir, you have a lot to learn about policies, civics, history, and reality. Taking tax dollars away from people by raising taxes does nothing to promote growth and job creation. I don't think you really have a clue what is going on in your state and who really is obstructing progress yet you blame Bush and Republicans. Guess you have to have someone to blame other than your liberal ideology

PeteEU · Feb 19, 2016

Out of interest I have been looking into this.. and it is actually interesting.

US budget 2004-2005 2.4 trillion. Actual spending was closer to 2.5 trillion. This is about 3 trillion in 2015 dollars.
US budget 2014-2015 3.9 trillion.
US budget 2015-2016 4.1 according to the OP.

So the change since 2005 has been 1 trillion dollars give or take a hundred billion.

Now what has gone up? Lets look at the big posts.

Military spending.

2004-5 600 billion. (in 2015 dollars)
2014-5 613 billion + a new post of about 38 billion that was not present in 2004-5. Total 641 billion.

Change 41 billion. Should be much lower since the US is not in Iraq anymore.. but was the Iraq war funding not outside the budget in 2004-5?

Health spending.

2004-5 303 billion (in 2015 dollars)
2014-5 448 billion

Change 145 billion. Would be interesting to know how much healthcare costs in the private sector has gone up in the 10 years...?

Medicare

2004-5 362 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 525 billion

Change 163 billion. More older people.. Babyboom generation retiring big time.

Income security

2004-5 419 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 547 billion

Change 128 billion. The economic crash and its leftovers I am guessing.

Social security

2004-5 635 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 860 billion

225 billion. More older people.. not exactly something you can change much.

Interest

2004-5 223 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 223 billion

basically nothing has changed. Now who would have thought that?

So the question is out there... where would you guys cut? These big posts (minus interest of course) or go for smaller posts like education, energy, veteran affairs?

mmi · Feb 22, 2016

Conservative said:
8 million jobs lost, all of them yours?

One of them was. I was laid off from a job at Home Depot in the summer of 2008. The other 7,999,999 were job losses suffered by other people, ones you apparently don't give a crap about.

>>When the recession began there were 146 million people employed and when Obama took office it was 142 million so that looks like 4 million to me but then again you pick and choose the time line you want.

I said "Eight million jobs were lost 2007-08." I should have said 2008-2009.

>>You really have no concept of BLS data or how the unemployment number is calculated and what goes in and what comes out

I've helped collect "what goes in" for the past seventeen years, and I've read every monthly report over that period — more than two hundred of 'em. Now I'd be the first to say that there's a lot of stuff I don't know about the employment data collected and the information published by the agency, but I can say with complete confidence that you don't have the first clue.

>>it [the Reagan Recession] lasted shorter because of strong economic policies and leadership

Seventeen months as compared to eighteen?

>>You see results and ignore policies.

You look at results … and you see what you want to see. You support SSE policies and fail to recognize the serious damage they do to the economy, e.g., running up a ton of debt and helping create highly dysfunctional wealth disparity.

>>The 81-82 recession affected a lot more people than this one and you have yet to post how it affected you and your family

You can keep on saying that if you wish, and I'll keep saying that it hurt my family because we care about the tens of millions of Americans it hurt a lot. Not everyone is a selfish SOB.

>>High inflation affects every American, the financial bubble not so much

I'll simply repeat: "The CPI increased by only 3.8% in 1982."

>>A lesson I learned in 35 years of business

The lesson here is that "no matter how many times you make the same statement over and over the results don't change." It's entirely clear that you have no concept of the "lesson" involved.

>>Is that why employment dropped from 142 million to 139 in two years

It did that in one year — 2009. The drop was the result of the GOP SSE Great Recession.

>>You have yet to show the tax benefits to business that generated the results you want to credit Obama for.

Just as you've never asked me to.

Work Opportunity Tax Credit
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Incentives
Net Operating Loss Carryback
Municipal Bond Programs
Making Work Pay Tax Credit
COBRA: Health Insurance Continuation Subsidy

>>How did tax cuts prevent a WORLD WIDE DEPRESSION?

Most economists say the stimulus helped prevent a global economic meltdown and kept US unemployment from jumping as a high as twenty percent. — "The Presidents: Exploring History One Week at a Time," The Seven-Day Scholar, 2012

>>Macro economics doesn't address human behavior

Yer tired rhetoric and false data don't explain macroeconomic performance.

>>Got it, feelings trump reality

No, not "feelings," but rather a recognition that "me and my family" are not the only people in the world worthy of any consideration.

>>why did we need another jobs act

Because of the severity of the damage done to the economy by the GOP SSE policies you continue to support.

>>Comprehensive immigration reform would have done what to employment?

immigration_reform_and _GDP_by_sector.jpg

— "Raising the Floor for American Workers: The Economic Benefits of Comprehensive Immigration Reform," Immigration Policy Center, Jan 2010

>>You buy what you are told and ignore reality.

More of yer unending projection.

>>Reagan had leadership skills, Obama was a college professor and governs like one.

Mindless rhetoric. Obummer has enough leadership skills to be a two-term Negro POTUS.

>>This is how you respond using the quote function, try it some time

No, this is ONCE AGAIN how you fail to use it properly. You cut off the [QUOTE= part, and as I keep on saying, I believe you do it purposefully so that the member yer responding to won't be notified — a pathetic effort to get the last word.

Conservative · Feb 22, 2016

mmi said:
One of them was. I was laid off from a job at Home Depot in the summer of 2008. The other 7,999,999 were job losses suffered by other people, ones you apparently don't give a crap about.

>>When the recession began there were 146 million people employed and when Obama took office it was 142 million so that looks like 4 million to me but then again you pick and choose the time line you want.

I said "Eight million jobs were lost 2007-08." I should have said 2008-2009.

>>You really have no concept of BLS data or how the unemployment number is calculated and what goes in and what comes out

I've helped collect "what goes in" for the past seventeen years, and I've read every monthly report over that period — more than two hundred of 'em. Now I'd be the first to say that there's a lot of stuff I don't know about the employment data collected and the information published by the agency, but I can say with complete confidence that you don't have the first clue.

>>it [the Reagan Recession] lasted shorter because of strong economic policies and leadership

Seventeen months as compared to eighteen?

>>You see results and ignore policies.

You look at results … and you see what you want to see. You support SSE policies and fail to recognize the serious damage they do to the economy, e.g., running up a ton of debt and helping create highly dysfunctional wealth disparity.

>>The 81-82 recession affected a lot more people than this one and you have yet to post how it affected you and your family

You can keep on saying that if you wish, and I'll keep saying that it hurt my family because we care about the tens of millions of Americans it hurt a lot. Not everyone is a selfish SOB.

>>High inflation affects every American, the financial bubble not so much

I'll simply repeat: "The CPI increased by only 3.8% in 1982."

>>A lesson I learned in 35 years of business

The lesson here is that "no matter how many times you make the same statement over and over the results don't change." It's entirely clear that you have no concept of the "lesson" involved.

>>Is that why employment dropped from 142 million to 139 in two years

It did that in one year — 2009. The drop was the result of the GOP SSE Great Recession.

>>You have yet to show the tax benefits to business that generated the results you want to credit Obama for.

Just as you've never asked me to.

Work Opportunity Tax Credit

Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Incentives

Net Operating Loss Carryback

Municipal Bond Programs

Making Work Pay Tax Credit

COBRA: Health Insurance Continuation Subsidy

>>How did tax cuts prevent a WORLD WIDE DEPRESSION?

Most economists say the stimulus helped prevent a global economic meltdown and kept US unemployment from jumping as a high as twenty percent. — "The Presidents: Exploring History One Week at a Time," The Seven-Day Scholar, 2012

>>Macro economics doesn't address human behavior

Yer tired rhetoric and false data don't explain macroeconomic performance.

>>Got it, feelings trump reality

No, not "feelings," but rather a recognition that "me and my family" are not the only people in the world worthy of any consideration.

>>why did we need another jobs act

Because of the severity of the damage done to the economy by the GOP SSE policies you continue to support.

>>Comprehensive immigration reform would have done what to employment?

View attachment 67197446

View attachment 67197447

— "Raising the Floor for American Workers: The Economic Benefits of Comprehensive Immigration Reform," Immigration Policy Center, Jan 2010

>>You buy what you are told and ignore reality.

More of yer unending projection.

>>Reagan had leadership skills, Obama was a college professor and governs like one.

Mindless rhetoric. Obummer has enough leadership skills to be a two-term Negro POTUS.

>>This is how you respond using the quote function, try it some time

No, this is ONCE AGAIN how you fail to use it properly. You cut off the

part said:

Wrong format, leftwing lies, distortions and out of context information. Typical of you

Click to expand...

mmi · Feb 22, 2016

Conservative said:
Wrong format, leftwing lies, distortions and out of context information. Typical of you

Well, that post of yers sure is a mess — the reason being this discussion of the QUOTE tag and the server's reading of it.

The bottom line here is that you lose this debate every single freakin' time. And amazingly you keep at it.

Conservative · Feb 22, 2016

mmi said:
Well, that post of yers sure is a mess — the reason being this discussion of the QUOTE tag and the server's reading of it.

The bottom line here is that you lose this debate every single freakin' time. And amazingly you keep at it.

The interesting fact is you aren't qualified to judge anyone else's debate tactics except in your own mind. I counter your so called facts with Treasury Data, Example, CBO projected a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit in January 2009 for the entire fiscal year. Included in that was 200 billion in TARP which we now know was 400 billion and that was repaid but recycled by Geithner. Then there is the 192 billion in Supplemental spending and the failure of the Obama stimulus to create new shovel ready jobs thus new taxpayers. The Obama stimulus was so successful he lost the House in 2010, again in 2012, and the entire Congress in 2014. He got 4 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008 as well but then again don't let those facts get in the way of your opinions and judging of debaters

OpportunityCost · Feb 22, 2016

PeteEU said:
Out of interest I have been looking into this.. and it is actually interesting.

US budget 2004-2005 2.4 trillion. Actual spending was closer to 2.5 trillion. This is about 3 trillion in 2015 dollars.
US budget 2014-2015 3.9 trillion.
US budget 2015-2016 4.1 according to the OP.

So the change since 2005 has been 1 trillion dollars give or take a hundred billion.

Now what has gone up? Lets look at the big posts.

Military spending.

2004-5 600 billion. (in 2015 dollars)
2014-5 613 billion + a new post of about 38 billion that was not present in 2004-5. Total 641 billion.

Change 41 billion. Should be much lower since the US is not in Iraq anymore.. but was the Iraq war funding not outside the budget in 2004-5?

Health spending.

2004-5 303 billion (in 2015 dollars)
2014-5 448 billion

Change 145 billion. Would be interesting to know how much healthcare costs in the private sector has gone up in the 10 years...?

Medicare

2004-5 362 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 525 billion

Change 163 billion. More older people.. Babyboom generation retiring big time.

Income security

2004-5 419 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 547 billion

Change 128 billion. The economic crash and its leftovers I am guessing.

Social security

2004-5 635 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 860 billion

225 billion. More older people.. not exactly something you can change much.

Interest

2004-5 223 billion (2015 dollars)
2014-5 223 billion

basically nothing has changed. Now who would have thought that?

So the question is out there... where would you guys cut? These big posts (minus interest of course) or go for smaller posts like education, energy, veteran affairs?

Pete regarding the military spending, some of that was appropriations and not budgeted. Not defending it, just saying in that one instance it will throw off your numbers, go grab the appropriations bill related to the military and that will give you a better picture.

mmi · Feb 22, 2016

Conservative said:
CBO projected a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit in January 2009 for the entire fiscal year.

True.

>>Included in that was 200 billion in TARP which we now know was 400 billion and that was repaid but recycled by Geithner.

A stupid, disgusting lie.

>>Then there is the 192 billion in Supplemental spending

Money for the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that the previous administration shamelessly left out of its budget request.

>>the failure of the Obama stimulus to create new shovel ready jobs thus new taxpayers.

CBO reports that five million jobs are attributable to the ARRA.

>>The Obama stimulus was so successful he lost the House in 2010, again in 2012, and the entire Congress in 2014.

Faux Noise, Limpblow, Blech, a severe outbreak of teabugger fever, and an unprecedented level of gerrymandering.

>>He got 4 million fewer votes in 2012 than 2008

2008 — 365-173, 53-46
2012 — 332-208, 51-47

Two easy wins. The biggest factor for the dropoff may have been no Caribou Barbie on the ticket in 2012.

>>don't let those facts get in the way of your opinions and judging of debaters

Facts? More like a lie, a distortion, another lie, another distortion, and an irrelevancy. The same crap you post over and over again.

OpportunityCost said:
the military spending, some of that was appropriations and not budgeted.

How can money that's not budgeted be appropriated. Do you mean "not requested"?

>>grab the appropriations bill related to the military and that will give you a better picture.

I'd be interested more in what was spent than what was authorized.

2005 — $659B
2015 — $684B