• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

FBI joins Flint drinking water investigation

akrunner88 said:
Public health and safety should never be a political issue. I'd be as equally concerned and outraged if this happened under a democrat administration.

Both sides of the aisle are known for picking "cost-effectiveness" over public safety, which in the long run ends up costing more in liability. This short-sighted thinking is something you would think would be a lesson learned by now.
Click to expand...

It DID happen under a Democrat administration

Why were Emergency managers appointed ? Why is their infrastructure in such bad shape ?
 
NonoBadDog said:
The FBI will look at everything on both sides with a fine tooth comb. News articles tend to dumb down or slant information depending on the reporter. I would have to read the deposition myself to draw any kind of conclusion about anything. There are so many people trying to cover their collective asses right now that they will present cherry picked and falsified information that I wouldn't believe anything that is presented by the press without having the full document to read myself.
Click to expand...

I did mean I wanted the FBI and investigators to look at past statements that were taken under oath...
The actual deposition not the aNewspaper article.
I used the article to point out that there are depositions which were taken between 2012 and now that could shed light on what happened regarding the use of the Flint River and the treatment and testing of the water even if/when the deposition was regarding another issue in Flint.
 
minnie616 said:
I did mean I wanted the FBI and investigators to look at past statements that were taken under oath...
The actual deposition not the aNewspaper article.
I used the article to point out that there are depositions which were taken between 2012 and now that could shed light on what happened regarding the use of the Flint River and the treatment and testing of the water even if/when the deposition was regarding another issue in Flint.
Click to expand...

I am sorry. I think I must have been as clear as mud. I didn't think you meant the news article. It was clear that you meant the depositions.
 
minnie616 said:
This is about the toxic water in Flint , not about politics.

But since you want to talk politics Gov Snyder is a republican. He appointed 4 different Emergency manager for Flint since 2012.

Candice Early is also a republican.
Click to expand...

And the EM he appointed was a Democrat.
 
Gill said:
And the EM he appointed was a Democrat.
Click to expand...

:lol: too funny.

I thought clean non toxic water would be a national priority that was not political.
Oh well...
 
minnie616 said:
:lol: too funny.

I thought clean non toxic water would be a national priority that was not political.
Oh well...
Click to expand...

Yes I think incompetent management is available with either political flavor.
 
Fenton said:
Where was the FBI when these Cities were being run into the ground by corrupt Democrats and their destructive policies ?
Click to expand...

As if this is a relevant question.

What we are seeing in Michigan is the Republican Party experimenting with Soviet style "central planning", with a Soviet style result.
 
Fenton said:
Where was the FBI when these Cities were being run into the ground by corrupt Democrats and their destructive policies ?
Click to expand...

Instant deflection.

Who didn't see that coming? :lol:
 
Ntharotep said:
There's only one way this will ever happen.
*Hums "Revolution" by Queensryche.
Click to expand...

Well if you are going to go with Queensryche in this situation where lead is well known to effect people mentally, I'd go with:

 
minnie616 said:
I thought clean non toxic water would be a national priority that was not political.
Click to expand...

I would have thought that the security of U.S. Top Secret intelligence, the safety of U.S. embassies, and the lives of Americans overseas would be a national priority that was not political.

Yet the presumptive Democrat presidential nominee is under investigation by the very same FBI that recently became involved in Flint and the argument all along has been that Hillary Clinton is pure as the driven snow and that any effort to investigate her is little more than political mudslinging.

I guess "apolitical national priorities" are relative?
 
soot said:
I would have thought that the security of U.S. Top Secret intelligence, the safety of U.S. embassies, and the lives of Americans overseas would be a national priority that was not political.

Yet the presumptive Democrat presidential nominee is under investigation by the very same FBI that recently became involved in Flint and the argument all along has been that Hillary Clinton is pure as the driven snow and that any effort to investigate her is little more than political mudslinging.

I guess "apolitical national priorities" are relative?
Click to expand...

And now a Flint water atrocity thread is being deflected to Hillary? Amazing.
 
minnie616 said:
:lol: too funny.

I thought clean non toxic water would be a national priority that was not political.
Oh well...
Click to expand...

You're right. Why did you make a point of stating that the governor is a republican ??

Can you spell "hypocrite"?

oh well....
 
poweRob said:
And now a Flint water atrocity thread is being deflected to Hillary? Amazing.
Click to expand...

Deflected?

No.

If someone is suspected of committing some kind of crime then it should be investigated and they should be charged and have their day in court.

If they're guilty of breaking the law then they should work out the best deal they can and then accept whatever punishment is ultimately leveled.

But there's no clear factual indication in anything I've read that leads my to believe that someone undoubtedly committed a crime.

Mistakes may have been made, there appears to have been knowledge that lead levels were increasing but until those levels exceed official minimum acceptable levels it doesn't seem that much of anything was officially done.

And perhaps that presents a practical indictment of what had previously been considered acceptable levels of lead.

And perhaps it should cause a review of policy as it regards both public reporting of potentially hazardous environmental conditions and mechanisms for addressing potential hazards as they occur in real time.

And perhaps it is morally unacceptable to some that more wasn't done sooner despite ever-increasing, yet legal acceptable, amount of lead in the drinking water.

But it seems that the same folks who are taking the moral high ground in this situation accuse others of simply playing politics when the shoe is on the other foot.

We've got your boy Bernie Sanders calling for Gov. Snyder's resignation due to the mere appearance of impropriety yet he has not so much as suggested that Hillary Clinton should do the same despite the fact that she is currently, and has been for some time, under investigation by the FBI.

Apparently if you're a democrat it's okay for the Secretary Of State and potential future President of the United States to put the entire nation at risk but it isn't okay for a Republican governor to put one city at risk.

So, deflect?

No.

Not at all.

Let the investigation continue and let the chips fall where they may.

I have no vested interest in either Gov. Snyder or the Republican party more generally.

But if you're going to demand action when you get the scent of impropriety then do that across the board, not just when it stands to benefit you politically.
 
Gill said:
You're right. Why did you make a point of stating that the governor is a republican ??

Can you spell "hypocrite"?

oh well....
Click to expand...

I was trying to point out we have both Michigan republicans and Michigan democrats who are concerned about the toxic water in Flint Michigan.and trying to help those who were harmed by the water.
 
Fenton said:
Yup,

The Federal bailout pushed by Democrats to help a City that was run into the ground by Democrats .
Click to expand...


minnie616 said:
This is about the toxic water in Flint , not about politics.

But since you want to talk politics Gov Snyder is a republican. He appointed 4 different Emergency manager for Flint since 2012.

Candice Early is also a republican.
Click to expand...

Too late to edit but I should have said Candice Miller ( must have been a senior moment ).

I really like Candice Miller ...so much so that I voted 2 times for her for Secretary of State.
When she ran for US Representative I would have voted for her but alas she does not represent the district I am from.
I am glad she is a US Representative though.
 
Last edited:
soot said:
Deflected?

No.

If someone is suspected of committing some kind of crime then it should be investigated and they should be charged and have their day in court.

If they're guilty of breaking the law then they should work out the best deal they can and then accept whatever punishment is ultimately leveled.

But there's no clear factual indication in anything I've read that leads my to believe that someone undoubtedly committed a crime.

Mistakes may have been made, there appears to have been knowledge that lead levels were increasing but until those levels exceed official minimum acceptable levels it doesn't seem that much of anything was officially done.

And perhaps that presents a practical indictment of what had previously been considered acceptable levels of lead.

And perhaps it should cause a review of policy as it regards both public reporting of potentially hazardous environmental conditions and mechanisms for addressing potential hazards as they occur in real time.

And perhaps it is morally unacceptable to some that more wasn't done sooner despite ever-increasing, yet legal acceptable, amount of lead in the drinking water.

But it seems that the same folks who are taking the moral high ground in this situation accuse others of simply playing politics when the shoe is on the other foot.

We've got your boy Bernie Sanders calling for Gov. Snyder's resignation due to the mere appearance of impropriety yet he has not so much as suggested that Hillary Clinton should do the same despite the fact that she is currently, and has been for some time, under investigation by the FBI.

Apparently if you're a democrat it's okay for the Secretary Of State and potential future President of the United States to put the entire nation at risk but it isn't okay for a Republican governor to put one city at risk.

So, deflect?

No.

Not at all.

Let the investigation continue and let the chips fall where they may.

I have no vested interest in either Gov. Snyder or the Republican party more generally.

But if you're going to demand action when you get the scent of impropriety then do that across the board, not just when it stands to benefit you politically.
Click to expand...

This, of course, is perfect deflection. It is changing the subject from the Flint water fiasco to, among other things, Hillary Clinton and the moral responsibility of even handedness. I haven't had the chance to see the member's posts in other threads but I take it he is careful in any criticisms of Democrats to balance his comments with criticisms of Republicans, foolishly needless as that would be.
 
Samhain said:
You keep posting this and continue to ignore that Croft was patting himself on the back in March of 2014, along with the Mayor and water supervisor, for switching to the Flint river.
Click to expand...

From the following Feb. 4, 2016 Where blame leads so far in Flint water crisis

article:

The record shows these officials broadly supported dropping Detroit as a drinking water source. A state-appointed emergency manager made the decision to use the Flint River as a water source, but far from protesting that choice, Flint officials celebrated the switch by raising a toast with Flint River water the day of the switch. We'll never know what decision Flint officials would have made entirely on their own. But they very easily could have followed the tragically misguided regulatory orders of the MDEQ and fallen into a lead crisis if a state-appointed emergency manager had not been running the city.

On the other hand, the record also reflects that many of those same city officials, had they been in control last spring, would have acted sooner to stop the crisis. They tried. City Council voted 7-1 in March to return to Detroit water service.

The Snyder-appointed emergency manager at that moment called the vote "incomprehensible," declined to follow the vote, and kept the city drinking Flint River water.
Click to expand...

Where blame leads so far in Flint water crisis | MLive.com
 
Last edited:
Northern Light said:
How much more "investigating" needs to be done before someone just admits that there's corruption going on?

The more time given the more time people can just burn the documents. Sigh
Click to expand...

What do you think the show is about? The guilty won't go to jail lol.
 
minnie616 said:
From the following Feb. 4, 2016 Where blame leads so far in Flint water crisis

article:



Where blame leads so far in Flint water crisis | MLive.com
Click to expand...

The citizens of flint had been pressuring leadership for years, since most people felt they were paying way too much for water. The decision to solve the problem by transferring to a different source had been planned,discussed, and widely accepted before the EM showed up.
 
Stopandthink said:
The citizens of flint had been pressuring leadership for years, since most people felt they were paying way too much for water. The decision to solve the problem by transferring to a different source had been planned,discussed, and widely accepted before the EM showed up.
Click to expand...

And as I said the decision to use an alternate pipeline that connected to the Huron River had been discussed.

They knew that the Flint River as a main source would be too expensive to properly treat ( they had a study done in 2011 ) but someone made the bad decision to use the Flint River for 2 years ( without proper water treatment ) anyway while they were building the new pipeline to Lake Huron.
 
Stopandthink said:
The citizens of flint had been pressuring leadership for years, since most people felt they were paying way too much for water. The decision to solve the problem by transferring to a different source had been planned,discussed, and widely accepted before the EM showed up.
Click to expand...

They were going to get the water from Lake Huron NOT the Flint River.

The Flint city council has voted to get its future water supply directly from Lake Huron.

The city council last night committed Flint to a contract to get 16 million gallons of water a day from a new pipeline.

Flint has been getting its tap water from the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department. But that has become more and more expensive in recent years.

Supporters, like Flint Mayor Dayne Walling, say the new Lake Huron pipeline would be cheaper.

“We think that having a mid-Michigan system makes more economic sense long term,” says Walling.
Click to expand...

From an April 15,2013 article:

This could be a pivotal day in the 'Water War' between Flint and Detroit
By STEVE CARMODY • APR 15, 2013

STEVE CARMODY/MICHIGAN RADIO

Today is the last chance for Detroit water department officials to make their case to keep Flint as a customer.

The state Treasury Department gave the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department until this evening to present its final best offer to the city of Flint.

Flint has been a DWSD customer for many years. But Flint city officials say
they want to get their tap water from a new Karegnondi Water Authority pipeline being built from Lake Huron to Genesee County.
Click to expand...

From an April 16, 2013 article:


Flint ending Detroit water contract, DWSD looking at its options
By STEVE CARMODY • APR 16, 2013

STEVE CARMODY/MICHIGAN RADIO
The city of Flint is dumping its contract with the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department.

Flint emergency manager Ed Kurtz signed a contract today to get the city’s water from a new pipeline that’s being built from Lake Huron to Genesee County.

Officials with Detroit's system made a final offer to try and keep Flint’s business. But Kurtz says the numbers were “unreliable.”
Click to expand...

Karegnondi Water Authority | Michigan Radio
 
Last edited:
minnie616 said:
And as I said the decision to use an alternate pipeline that connected to the Huron River had been discussed.

They knew that the Flint River as a main source would be too expensive to properly treat ( they had a study done in 2011 ) but someone made the bad decision to use the Flint River for 2 years ( without proper water treatment ) anyway while they were building the new pipeline to Lake Huron.
Click to expand...

They invested money and personnel into the treatment plant to handle the increased volume of river water, which had already been piped in for many years as the backup source in case of interrupted service from Detroit.
Flint residents should be drinking Flint River water by mid-April, officials say | MLive.com
 
minnie616 said:
They were going to get the water from Lake Huron NOT the Flint River.



From an April 15,2013 article:

This could be a pivotal day in the 'Water War' between Flint and Detroit
By STEVE CARMODY • APR 15, 2013



From an April 16, 2013 article:



Karegnondi Water Authority | Michigan Radio
Click to expand...

The treatment plant needed upgrading to handle the future Huron water source. In the meanwhile it was determined the plant could handle and treat the river water. Here's the official record:
https://www.cityofflint.com/wp-content/uploads/CoF-Water-System-QA.pdf
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom