• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Turkey says Russia violated its airspace near Syrian border

It's going to within a few years.

The new retirement pay system is going to kill retention.

Bad leadership, Medical costs are eating the force structure, the new weapons systems and the craft that carry them are under performing, the jets are getting old and the f-35 that is supposed to replace them is crap, the pentagon will not have the money to be half the stuff that they plan to buy over the next decade, putting women on subs and elite combat units will hurt them greatly. Firings for PC rules violations are killing the Navy officer corps, there are way way too many people in management ......and finally multi trillion dollar wars that weaken the nation have a way of telling the best and the brightest that there are better places to invest ones life.

For the Navy guy

As of this date, 16 Navy commanding officers, including five ship captains, have been relieved of their respective commands in 2013.

Is this number particularly significant? Well, while the number of ships in commission has continued to decline, to what is now the lowest number since 1916, the number of ship captains being relieved of their commands is steadily increasing. So, the percentage of ship captains being fired is rising, every year, and that should be a concern.

These officers are, quite literally, the best we have — the best we could make. Each has risen to command following years of intense competition and preparation. How could these captains be so ferociously competitive and yet fail at such a high rate?

According to Commander, Surface Forces, ship captains get relieved for two primary reasons: operational misconduct and personal misconduct.

Operational misconduct should be thought of as (almost exclusively) collision or grounding. While no electronic records related to ship captain firings exist before 2000, U-T San Diego has quoted sources in the Naval Personnel Command saying “nearly every commander fired 50 years ago got into trouble for running the ship aground or hitting a pier.” In other words, captains have been getting relieved for this sort of misadventure for as long as ships have been at sea.

Yet, no one seems especially concerned about this. It is understood that naval operations are inherently risky propositions, involving countless variables. Frankly, it is a testament to our commanding officers’ excellence that more accidents don’t happen. At the end of the day, it seems a certain number of accidents — and associated captain reliefs — are simply considered to be the cost of doing business on the high seas.

This brings us to “personal misconduct,” and the cause of the dramatic rise in firings in the past decade. Beginning in the early 1990s, post-Tailhook, women have been fully integrated into combat ships and squadrons. At first, men and women in ships had a healthy fear of one another, and the rules were rigidly enforced.

However, over time, everyone has become comfortable with the presence of the opposite sex, and naturally that comfort has led to an exploding rate of fraternization, at every level.

Casual observers — those who have never served in a fully integrated combat command — seem convinced that men and women can and should serve together in ships and squadrons with utter disregard for one another’s sexuality.

To those of us who have examined this problem from the inside, this seems a forlorn hope. Simply put, you cannot put young, healthy men and women into a small box, send them away for extended periods of isolation, and not expect them to interact dynamically with one another. They’re like magnets being put into a box and shaken — they stick.
.
.
.
In short, a new and more complex standard is now being set and enforced for our commanding officers. Not only are captains expected, as throughout history, to be excellent in terms of their ability to command a ship, but now they are on the front line of making a fully integrated crew work in seamless, sexless harmony.

Until some sort of equilibrium is reached, our captains will continue to live in positions of exquisite vulnerability. That’s the cost of making things work. Rather than be upset, best to simply accept this new reality. Rather than reacting with scalded-cat alacrity whenever a captain fails to handle integrated crews, we simply need to accept these firings as a new cost of doing business.
Opinion: Why More Commanding Officers are Getting Fired - USNI News
 
Russia plays it very well, as in Georgia, Crimea, and now in Syria; She bombs anywhere but Assad and The IS targets,in this way pushing more and more refugees into The West;

Hardly, Russia is bombing both the rebels and ISIS. http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/..._85957922_syria_us_russian_airstrikes_624.png

It is Turkey who is cooperating with ISIS, and who is encouraging the asylum seekers. The west is mad that Russia is on Assads side, but trying to kick out Assad was a mistake in the first place. Yes, he is a dictator with a lot of blood on his hands, but the alternative to him is worse.
 
I think that would depend a lot on who wins the election.

I don't think so at all. Neither side is going to go against Russia in anything more than words and superficial sanctions.
 
I don't think so at all. Neither side is going to go against Russia in anything more than words and superficial sanctions.

I can think of at least 1 potential candidate whose ego is so huge the thought of backing down is a foreign concept to them
 
Hardly, Russia is bombing both the rebels and ISIS.
It is Turkey who is cooperating with ISIS, and who is encouraging the asylum seekers. The west is mad that Russia is on Assads side, but trying to kick out Assad was a mistake in the first place. Yes, he is a dictator with a lot of blood on his hands, but the alternative to him is worse.

Turkey's Islamist government has had rational reasons to support the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. The Shiites whom ISIS militants love to slaughter are privately viewed by Turkey's Sunni supremacists as heretics (therefore, infidels). Likewise, Ankara views Syria's Kurds as a major security threat. The Turkish government believed that investing in ISIS (and its brothers in arms such as Ahrar ash-Sham and an-Nusra Front) would facilitate the downfall of Syrian president Bashar Assad, Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's friend-turned-nemesis.

Turkey's Double Game with ISIS: Dateline :: Middle East Quarterly
 
I think Turkey have been pretty clear as to where they stand and were in the months leading up to that incident. If Russia want to keep pushing the issue they can but it will cost them.

Yes, Turkey now has troops and artillery in Iraq. Yes, they've made it quite clear they are a criminal state, and fit right in with their NATO partners.
 
Cue the ones that will defend Erdogan who escalated the situation by shooting down the Russian jet in November.

When the Russians established their bases in Syria, they immediately continued their past practice of harassing NATO aircraft. Russian jets illuminated Turkish planes with their targeting radars, flew towards the Turkish border at high speed and then turned just short of it, "advised" Turkish planes via radio not to interfere with Russian operations etc. Whereas the US a super power can afford to these harassments in stride, Turkey is smaller and could not.

Even after the Russian jet was shot down, a Russian sailor was photographed standing on the deck of a Russian ship moving through the Bosphorous and pointing a shoulder launched anti aircraft missile at Instanbul. The Turks then had to advise Russia that any Russian sailor doing that was risking a lot. The Russian evidently put their toys away.
 
Last edited:
When the Russians established their bases in Syria, they immediately continued their past practice of harassing NATO aircraft. Russian jets illuminated Turkish planes with their targeting radars, flew towards the Turkish border at high speed and then turned just short of it, "advised" Turkish planes via radio not to interfere with Russian operations etc. Whereas the US a super power can afford to these harassments in stride, Turkey is smaller and could not.

Even after the Russian jet was shot down, a Russian sailor was photographed standing on the deck of a Russian ship moving through the Bosphorous and pointing a shoulder launched anti aircraft missile at Instanbul. The Turks then had to advise Russia that any Russian sailor doing that was risking a lot. The Russian evidently put their toys away.

Gosh, I'm going to run down to the church and light a few votive candles for the poor Turks! Poor babies...
 
Gosh, I'm going to run down to the church and light a few votive candles for the poor Turks! Poor babies...

That definetly cant hurt.

Having lived there, however, I noticed that the Turks have a very prickly sense of soveriegnty and patriotism. For example, when Senator Dole sponsored the Armeinian Genocide resolution, rightly or wrongly, every Turk suddenly knew who Senator Dole was and would ask us about him on the street. The Turks have also spent generations developing a capable military.

Putin should really takes these things into consideration when harassing Turkey, much less intending to teach them lessons like he did to Georgia and Ukraine. At the end of the day, the Turks are a pretty unified bunch and can fight back pretty effictively.
 
Last edited:
That definetly cant hurt.

Having lived there, however, I noticed that the Turks have a very prickly sense of soveriegnty and patriotism. For example, when Senator Dole sponsored the Armeinian Genocide resolution, rightly or wrongly, every Turk suddenly knew who Senator Dole was and would ask us about him on the street. The Turks have also spent generations developing a capable military.

Putin should really takes these things into consideration when harassing Turkey, much less intending to teach them lessons like he did to Georgia and Ukraine. At the end of the day, the Turks are a pretty unified bunch and can fight back pretty effictively.

To inform yourself about how thoroughly Turkish interests have infiltrated the US Government including the FBI, you should read Sibel Edmonds' book 'Classified Woman'. I am a cynical bastard, but I did not realize the extent of Turkish infiltration until I read that book.

The Turks make the Israelis look like Boy Scouts when it comes to infiltrating 'inside the Beltway'.
 
To inform yourself about how thoroughly Turkish interests have infiltrated the US Government including the FBI, you should read Sibel Edmonds' book 'Classified Woman'. I am a cynical bastard, but I did not realize the extent of Turkish infiltration until I read that book.

The Turks make the Israelis look like Boy Scouts when it comes to infiltrating 'inside the Beltway'.

Is there any country that hasnt completely and thouroughly infiltrated the FBI according to you?
 
To inform yourself about how thoroughly Turkish interests have infiltrated the US Government including the FBI, you should read Sibel Edmonds' book 'Classified Woman'. I am a cynical bastard, but I did not realize the extent of Turkish infiltration until I read that book.

The Turks make the Israelis look like Boy Scouts when it comes to infiltrating 'inside the Beltway'.

I dont doubt it. I bet the Turkish influence probably started early when they contributed an infantry brigade to the Korean War. Though some say the performance of this unit has been exaggerated (perhaps with beltway influence in mind), others say the Turkish Brigade made a stand that allowed an American division to successfully withdraw. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

One thing I noticed about the Turks when I was there is that they are almost Germanic. Their society is orgainized and crime free (well as much as is possible). Buses, air craft, and trains run on time. Turks wait their turn in line when arabs dont. Turkish police and military command respect. Some of this respect was based on fear, but alot of it was out of patriotism. They also brew dang good, German influenced beer. In short, I bet they present themselves well in Washington.
 
I dont doubt it. I bet the Turkish influence probably started early when they contributed an infantry brigade to the Korean War. Though some say the performance of this unit has been exaggerated (perhaps with beltway influence in mind), others say the Turkish Brigade made a stand that allowed an American division to successfully withdraw. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between.

One thing I noticed about the Turks when I was there is that they are almost Germanic. Their society is orgainized and crime free (well as much as is possible). Buses, air craft, and trains run on time. Turks wait their turn in line when arabs dont. Turkish police and military command respect. Some of this respect was based on fear, but alot of it was out of patriotism. They also brew dang good, German influenced beer. In short, I bet they present themselves well in Washington.

Yes, straddling the proverbial line between East and West, perhaps they have leaned west, eh? Thanks for the insight about the culture, I've never been there.

It seems they play the 'inside the Beltway' game like a violin.
 
Yes, straddling the proverbial line between East and West, perhaps they have leaned west, eh? Thanks for the insight about the culture, I've never been there.
It seems they play the 'inside the Beltway' game like a violin.

If you ever get a chance to visit, I would recommend it. As a historical side note, Turkish governments have leaned to the west since Ataturk. His rejection of the arabic script for the western alphabet had alot of symbolism behind it. Though the current president is openly religous and favors a more religously oriented society. But even he is mild by middle eastern standard, he bucks the secular trend of several generations. The Turkish military is solidy secular. On the street level, the Turks are a blend of hijabs (but no veils) and night club patrons.
 
Back
Top Bottom