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Repeal of Emergency Manager Law Part of NAACP's Flint Plan

sangha said:
I think that's the risk of doing business. All businesses run the risk of not being paid by their creditors.
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Then you have no problem with terminating pensions?
 
sangha said:
The creditors of a pension fund are not businesses.

I'll add pensions to the List of Things S&T is ignorant about
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Somehow they are immune from risk. Gotcha, I gotta get me one of those pension thingies
 
On this thread, the NAACP should be able to defend itself ..somehow .
Thus , I assign a "no-like", in view of the attacks on the NAACP.
 
It seems the people in Flint just can't catch a break.

More water problems in Flint, Michigan

FLINT, Mich. -- The trouble with the water in Flint just doesn't let up.

Residents have been using water filters for the last few months since dangerous lead levels were discovered.

Now, it appears some of those filters haven't been filtering enough.

Flint Mayor Karen Weaver said lead readings at 26 homes in the city were 10 times the federal limit-- too high to be treated by filters distributed by the state.

"It's really important that everyone get their water tested," Weaver said.
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Read more:

More water problems in Flint, Michigan - CBS News
 
With the right treatment, the Flint River water should have been safe to drink. And it mostly was -- until it left the plant and began interacting with the pipes. That’s how the lead leached into the system.

We still haven’t heard a good answer to why a protective and routine chemical that cost just $150 a day was left out. Was it intentional? An oversight? Was the Flint Water Department advised that it wasn’t needed? If so, by whom? Those questions are more important than the who, how and why of the decisions to leave DWSD.

Switching a major water system from one source to another is a massive undertaking, and is rarely done. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality and the federal Environmental Protection Agency should have known it requires much more planning, testing and analysis. It should not have been left to trial and error. The opportunists want to make this all about the administration of a Republican governor and the state’s emergency manager law.

Certainly, the MDEQ works for Gov. Rick Snyder, and should have worked much better. But that was a failure of process and not policy. If you add salt instead of sugar to a cake, it tastes disgusting — but the fault rests with the ingredients, not with the decision to bake the cake.

And whether or not Flint had an emergency manager, the outcome would likely have been the same. Local officials, after decades of feuding with the Detroit system over rates, wanted to switch, and would have done so anyway.

There’s plenty of forensic work to do to uncover how this crisis was allowed to happen and why the response was so inept. But the starting point should be at the water treatment plant, where the first tragic decision was likely made.
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Finley: Trace Flint blame from water plant

No, I don't think that the oversight of $150 worth of anti-corrosion agents is a budgetary driven decision. I think it's an oversight form someone who didn't know all they should have known, and / or people who didn't inform the decision makers this requirement.

This guy sounds pretty reasonable.

Now that the Flint water crisis is commanding such a large national spotlight, Michigan politicians are throwing elbows to get under it.
The most blatant example is U.S. Rep. Brenda Lawrence, D-Southfield, who is not going to allow the inconvenient fact that her district doesn’t include Flint to keep her off the stage.

Lawrence, a member of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, is demanding that Gov. Rick Snyder be dragged before the committee to testify about Flint. Committee Chair Jason Chaffetz, a Utah Republican, wants no part of such a sideshow.

Nor should he, since the U.S. Attorney in Detroit is already investigating, as is the Michigan attorney general.
Lawrence is trying to steal the thunder of Rep. Dan Kildee, D-Flint, who had been the go-to congressman for out-of-town cameras.

Poor Kildee also is being rolled by another fellow Democrat, Sen. Debbie Stabenow, who bumped him off the blamefest staged by MSNBC host Rachel Maddow in Flint Wednesday.

All of the above, plus Sen. Gary Peters, also a Democrat, are busy ginning up new laws that won’t accomplish much other than to keep their names in the headlines.

For a politician, a crisis is a terrible thing to waste.
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Editor’s Note: Politicians exploiting Flint crisis
 
minnie616 said:
Exactly. 1 in 10 jobs in Michigan, Ohio , California and many other states either directly or indirectly ( think stores, movie theaters , restaurants , gas stations, and yes bankers too ) depended on the domestic auto Industry surviving bankruptcy.

The Detroit 3 , US Honda , and Toyota are inter connected. They share the suppliers and if GM and Chrysler failed then the auto parts suppliers most likely would have also failed causing the US Honda & US Toyota to close thier US factories.

If that scenario had happened than all of our autos would have been imports.

Take a look at the following article:

Why Asian automakers want a federal bailout of U.S. industry - Dec. 15, 2008
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Exactly. That is the problem with too large to fail. In principal it would be the same thing with a municipality. Depending on their size and the exposure of businesses to it the damage goes off in all directions. It is this danger that is supposed to be contained.
 
joG said:
Exactly. That is the problem with too large to fail. In principal it would be the same thing with a municipality. Depending on their size and the exposure of businesses to it the damage goes off in all directions. It is this danger that is supposed to be contained.
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Maybe you don't know but the city of Detroit did go through bankruptcy about a year ago.

This is from a Nov. 2015 article:
Matthew Dolan, Susan Tompor and John Gallagher, Detroit Free Press 8:23 a.m. EST November 8, 2015

One year after a federal judge approves Detroit's bankruptcy exit plan, progress has been made while looming challenges remain, especially city pensions.

The City of Detroit has more than enough cash to pay its daily bills. Thousands of busted streetlights have been replaced. City retirees still receive pension checks, and valuable paintings remain ensconced in the gilded halls of the Detroit Institute of Arts.

That's the good news. But a year after a federal judge approved a cost-cutting and reinvestment plan in the nation's largest-ever municipal bankruptcy case, Detroit's financial future still hangs in the balance.
...

Modern-day soothsayers once envisioned doomsday scenarios for Detroit: The city would be trapped in bankruptcy court for years. Defaulting on the city's debt would ripple throughout the municipal bond market. Detroit would be unable to borrow from creditors again.

None came true.

Indeed, some of the city's largest creditors and most fierce courtroom opponents took financial stakes in the city's future by taking over city parking garages and securing redevelopment rights to landmark properties such as Joe Louis Arena. A $245-million bond offering to finance reinvestment in city services this summer came at a premium for the city, but it also benefited investment grade from rating agencies for a city once seen as junk status.

Part of bankruptcy's legacy has been a turn to a more regional approach to the city's problems. Detroit is scheduled to transfer management of its water and sewerage department to a new regional authority on Jan. 1 as a byproduct of the city's bankruptcy.
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Read more:

Detroit Rising: Life after bankruptcy
 
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joG said:
Exactly. That is the problem with too large to fail. In principal it would be the same thing with a municipality. Depending on their size and the exposure of businesses to it the damage goes off in all directions. It is this danger that is supposed to be contained.
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Detroit went through bankruptcy late 2014, early 2015.
Violent crimes were also down in the city of Detroit in 2015.

Detroit — Major violent crimes were down in 2015 in Michigan’s most populous city, according to figures by the city of Detroit.

“Though we had a slight decrease in homicides and non-fatal shootings, we still have work to do,” Detroit Police Assistant Chief Steve Dolunt said.
...


Rapes were down 17 percent compared with 2014 and 24 percent from 2013, which is when Police Chief James Craig came to town.
Robberies were down 18 percent compared with 2014, and 35 percent from 2013.
Violent crime statistics were down across the board, and fell 7 percent from 2014 and 11 percent compared to 2013.

Property crimes were also down 8 percent from last year and 21 percent from 2013,
according to the city’s data. Only larcenies were up — 4 percent — compared to 2014,
though the 15,920 larcenies were still 15 percent lower than in 2013.

Burglaries and auto thefts were down, too.
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Homicides, rapes, burglaries down in Detroit in 2015
 
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minnie616 said:
Maybe you don't know but the city of Detroit did go through bankruptcy about a year ago.

This is from a Nov. 2015 article:


Read more:

Detroit Rising: Life after bankruptcy
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I have looked at a number of sovereign and fewer municipal defaults, but admit that I do not know enough details of the Detroit one to say much. But it is usually so that the lenders come back as soon as it is believable that new debt will be paid. This can be for many different reasons like a guarantee by a creditworthy entity or such. The harm is still there, however, where pensioners lost their savings or a guarantee by the defaulting community no longer lends credibility to a business and a loan is withdrawn or not extended. So the city gets new lights and the pensioner goes hungry. ;)
 
minnie616 said:
Detroit went through bankruptcy late 2014, early 2015.
Violent crimes were also down in the city of Detroit in 2015.
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How was this a consequence of the default?
 
joG said:
How was this a consequence of the default?
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Bankruptcy ...not default.

The public city lighting is back on which cuts down on street crime.
Rapes are down 17 percent from the year before.
Robberies are down 18 percent from the year before.
 
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Seems like if a city cannot handle its responsibilities, the easiest thing to do would be to dissolve the city and transfer the responsibility to the Country.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Seems like if a city cannot handle its responsibilities, the easiest thing to do would be to dissolve the city and transfer the responsibility to the Country.
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Belle Isle park is still owned by Detroit but it now managed as a State Park through a 30 year lease that started in 2013.


Belle Isle, officially Belle Isle Park, is a 982-acre (1.534 sq mi) island park in the Detroit River, between the United States mainland and Canada. Owned by the City of Detroit, it is managed as a state park by the Michigan Department of Natural Resources through a 30-year lease initiated in 2013.[1] Belle Isle is the largest city-owned island park in the United States and is the third largest island in the Detroit River after Grosse Ile and Fighting Island. It is connected to mainland Detroit by the MacArthur Bridge.

The island is home to the Belle Isle Aquarium, the Belle Isle Conservatory, the Belle Isle Nature Zoo, the Detroit Yacht Club on an adjacent island, the James Scott Memorial Fountain, the Dossin Great Lakes Museum, a Coast Guard station, a municipal golf course and numerous monuments. It also previously housed a Nature Center where visitors were able to traverse wooded trails and view wildlife natural habitats, a former Belle Isle Zoo, riding stables and the Detroit Boat Club. The island includes a half-mile (800 m) swimming beach.
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Read more:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Isle_Park_(Michigan)
 
minnie616 said:
I do not know the answer.
I just know that Gov. Snyder had the power to hire and fire the Emergency Managers for whatever reason he chose.

The following article implies that Ed Kurtz was fired because he rejected using the Flint River for the main source of water for the city of a Flint.



Read more:

Exclusive: Gov. Rick Snyder?s Men Originally Rejected Using Flint?s Toxic River - The Daily Beast
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Howard Croft, Flint water plant supervisor Brent Wright, Mayor Walling all patted each other on the back as part of the March 12th 2014 groundbreaking ceremony signalling the switch to the Flint river. His interview detailing how it's not his fault is a great example of the CYA plans everyone involved have been practicing.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'm sorry but your point in your reply escapes me. Are you suggesting something different than transferring responsibility of Flint to the county (sorry, I mistyped in my post and wrote country instead of county)?
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So you are suggesting that counties run all the cities that within the county and that the counties collect all property taxes in the county?
 
minnie616 said:
So you are suggesting that counties run all the cities that within the county and that the counties collect all property taxes in the county?
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No, I wouldn't go that far. A city is incorporated by the state to manage within its boundaries. If the city cannot manage that, I'm suggesting that the city be dis-incorporated and revert back to the county.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
No, I wouldn't go that far. A city is incorporated by the state to manage within its boundaries. If the city cannot manage that, I'm suggesting that the city be dis-incorporated and revert back to the county.
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That is a novel idea.

I would agree that perhaps water and sewer , parks and museums , and maybe law enforcement would be better handled by the county but not sure about the day to day finances.
 
minnie616 said:
That is a novel idea.

I would agree that perhaps water and sewer , parks and museums , and maybe law enforcement would be better handled by the county but not sure about the day to day finances.
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Add schools and fire services to the list and you've covered about 80% of what local governments spend money on.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Add schools and fire services to the list and you've covered about 80% of what local governments spend money on.
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Back in the late 1940s my father was instrumental in helping to start a new school district in a rural area in the upper lower peninsula of Michigan so the children did not need to go to the city 30 miles away to attend high school. So I understand the need for school districts , but I also understand that leads to poor districts and rich districts within a county and even more differences in money distribution for schools throughout a state.

I know Michigan tried to make it more even by not allowing each district to raise property taxes for day to day school expenses.
But they still allow districts to raise taxes for building funds so while the schools in cities are crumbling the ones in suburbs have state of the art media centers, fireplaces to gather around, swimming pools, etc.

Here is a link about Birmingham middle Schools.

Both BPS middle school facilities have new media centers, science laboratories, computer laboratories, engineering technology areas and classroom updates. Media centers are equipped with electronic resources and a video distribution system connected to all classrooms. Each middle school classroom has three computer stations, a large teaching/presentation monitor and Internet access. Additional improvements included infrastructure upgrades to HVAC, along with upgrades to mechanical and electrical systems, including lighting. Classrooms and corridors were updated with new windows, floors, walls, casework, as required.

Both schools have improved science labs and better spaces for music. Spaces for art, skills for living, gym and locker rooms were also upgraded, as needed. Derby’s administrative offices were renovated to improve visibility and Berkshire gained improved traffic design to separate car, bus and pedestrian traffic.
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Birmingham Public Schools - Middle School
 
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