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Repeal of Emergency Manager Law Part of NAACP's Flint Plan

reinoe said:
That doesn't change what I said. The Flint Manager is grossly incompetent and as you can see, refused to provide the city with safe water even though he was responsible for the disaster. Now if the Emergency Manager was someone who gave a damn about the people of Flint this never would have happened in the first place. That doesn't change the fact that an Emergency Manager can be a competent person.
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Possibly , but I haven't seen or heard of or read about any competent Michigan Emergency Managers.
 
poweRob said:
Here's the hurdle... They passed the emergency manager law and the citizens got together and made an referendum ballot initiative and overturned it.

Then that slick bastard Snyder and the slimey GOP legislature passed it again with a clause saying "this law cannot be overturned by referendum."

It's a tough road they are on trying to get it undone.
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What were you willing to suggest as a solution for Flint's problems if not an emergency manager? Thought so.
 
JC Callender said:
What's your solution for Detroit and Flint if not emergency managers? Thought so.
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The Emergency managers that Gov. Snyder assigned to Flint did not save Flint any money did they?
It fact it is estimated that the corrosion that took place the pipelines may cost 1 to 1 and half billion to fix...all because the EM decided to stop using the Detroit city water that had an anti -corrosion agent in it and switch to Flint River water without an anti corrosion agent in the way.

By the way the state did a study on the Flint River 2011 and knew the water would not be drinkable unless an anti -corrosion agent was added to water.

That agent would have cost about a $100 a but apparently it more important to save money than to protect the health of the people and the water pipes of Flint.

Experts say if the anti-corrosion agent had been added to the Flint River water 90 percent of the Flint problems with the water would not have happened.

The City Council of needs to be in charge and hire financial advisors.
 
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minnie616 said:
The Emergency managers that Gov. Snyder assigned to Flint did not save Flint any money did they?
It fact it is estimated that the corrosion that took place the pipelines may cost 1 to 1 and half billion to fix...all because the EM decided to stop using the Detroit city water that had an anti -corrosion agent in it and switch to Flint River water without an anti corrosion agent in the way.

By the way the state did a study on the Flint River 2011 and knew the water would not be drinkable unless an anti -corrosion agent was added to water.

That agent would have cost about a $100 a but apparently it more important to save money than to protect the health of the people and the water pipes of Flint.

Experts say if the anti-corrosion agent had been added to the Flint River water 90 percent of the Flint problems with the water would not have happened.
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So you believe that Snyder decided it was a waste of $100 to ensure Flint's residents had lead free water? Would you say that a decision to spend $100 is one that would usually be brought front and center in a governors meeting?

And seriously, what's your solution for Detroit and Flint if not emergency managers? The murder, crime, horrible finances...?
 
JC Callender said:
So you believe that Snyder decided it was a waste of $100 to ensure Flint's residents had lead free water? Would you say that a decision to spend $100 is one that would usually be brought front and center in a governors meeting? ...
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Seriously , that's what we need to find out.
Since the state did a study of the Flint River in 2011 and knew the water had to be treated with the anti-corrision agent who decided and why was it decided to forgo the anti-corrive treatment?

From CNN

Later it became publicly known that federal law had not been followed. A 2011 study on the Flint River found it would have to be treated with an anti-corrosive agent for it to be considered as a safe source for drinking water.

Adding that agent would have cost about $100 a day, and experts say 90% of the problems with Flint's water would have been avoided.
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How Flint, Michigan's tap water became toxic - CNN.com
 
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minnie616 said:
Seriously , that's what we need find out.
Since the state did a study of the Flint River in 2011 and knew the water had to be treated with the anti-corrision agent who decided and why was it decided to forgo the anti-corrive treatment.
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Wow, ok. I would never assume a democrat or anyone else would be so greedy and ignorant as to make a conscious decision to allow dangerous levels of lead into drinking water to save a hundred bucks. I would never assume a decision would get to a democrat governors desk either, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
So it seems the Snyder administration were supplying bottled water to employees, while assuring the Flint public that their toxic piped water was safe. FOR A YEAR!
 
JC Callender said:
Wow, ok. I would never assume a democrat or anyone else would be so greedy and ignorant as to make a conscious decision to allow dangerous levels of lead into drinking water to save a hundred bucks. I would never assume a decision would get to a democrat governors desk either, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Actually Gov. Snyder is a republican and the Emergency Mangers he assigned are republicans too.
But political ideology does not matter.

What matters is the health of the people of Flint and that this type of tragic error never happens to any other US city or town again.
 
Renae said:
Yes... they did. You need to research this more then what race hustlers tell you is the truth.
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You need to research it more.

From a CNN article:

In 2011, Flint was declared to be in a financial state of emergency, and the state took budgetary control. Therefore, all the decisions made during the water crisis were at the state level, which state officials confirmed, not by the City Council or the mayor.

"When the governor appointed an emergency financial manager (in 2011), that person came here ... to simply do one thing and one thing only, and that's cut the budget, at any cost," said Michigan Congressman Dan Kildee.
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How Flint, Michigan's tap water became toxic - CNN.com
 
minnie616 said:
You need to research it more.

From a CNN article:
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YAWN


FLINT, MI -- The city has stopped using the Flint River as its drinking water source, but that hasn't ended the finger-pointing over who decided to use it in the first place.

Former emergency manager Darnell Earley said in a statement to The Flint Journal-MLive that "local civic leaders" — not the state — made the decision, which came to an abrupt end earlier this month as the city was reconnected to the Detroit water system.

Earley, who was Flint's emergency manager at the time of the switch, said Mayor Dayne Walling and the City Council in March 2013 approved a "long-term plan" that included joining the Karegnondi Water Authority and the temporary use of the river.

The resolution does not indicate support or opposition to using the river, but Earley said river water was part of the overall plan presented to him by Walling and other city staff when he started working in Flint in October 2013.

"Anyone who says otherwise is being disingenuous for whatever reason," Earley's statement said.
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Ex-emergency manager says local leaders made decision to use Flint River water | MLive.com
 
Manc Skipper said:
So it seems the Snyder administration were supplying bottled water to employees, while assuring the Flint public that their toxic piped water was safe. FOR A YEAR!
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There were a couple of employees from Flint who didn't get bottled water though, since Snyder has a vendetta against the citizens of that city.
 
minnie616 said:
Actually Gov. Snyder is a republican and the Emergency Mangers he assigned are republicans too.
But political ideology does not matter.

What matters is the health of the people of Flint and that this type of tragic error never happens to any other US city or town again.
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If ideology didn't matter, why do you suppose Snyder did this?
 
Manc Skipper said:
So it seems the Snyder administration were supplying bottled water to employees, while assuring the Flint public that their toxic piped water was safe. FOR A YEAR!
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If it were not so serious it might be funny.

From the Detroit Free Press:

LANSING In January of 2015, when state officials were telling worried Flint residents their water was safe to drink, they also were arranging for coolers of purified water in Flint's State Office Building so employees wouldn't have to drink from the taps, according to state government e-mails released Thursday by the liberal group Progress Michigan.
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Read more:

Amid denials, state workers in Flint got clean water
 
JC Callender said:
If ideology didn't matter, why do you suppose Snyder did this?
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I said we need to find out who decided not to use the anti-corrosion agent and why was it decided not to use it?
Was it just to save about a $100 a day?
 
JC Callender said:
What were you willing to suggest as a solution for Flint's problems if not an emergency manager? Thought so.
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Democracy. But of course as an emergency manager lover you don't believe in that sort of thing.
 
minnie616 said:
Actually Gov. Snyder is a republican and the Emergency Mangers he assigned are republicans too.
But political ideology does not matter.

What matters is the health of the people of Flint and that this type of tragic error never happens to any other US city or town again.
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Wrong again. Flint's emergency manager was a Democrat.
 
minnie616 said:
The NAACP feels that the Emergency Manager Law in Michigan needs to be repealed.

When Snyder was elected Gov in Michigan in 2010 he and the republican congress decided to take control of Detroit Hamtramck, Flint , Pontiac and other Michigan cities and appoint " Emergency Managers" and control their local financial decisions.

That emergency manager law was so unpopular that Michigan voters repealed in the November 2012 elections. About 5 or 6 weeks later the Michigan Republican congress with Gov Snyder's urging passed the law during a lame duck session a second time ( with a small difference).
This time they added a small fiscal appropriation that rendered it immune from a ballot-box veto. (Spending laws can’t be overturned by voters via referendum.)

Now the NAACP views that law as a contributor to the public health emergency in the city of Flint.



Read more:

Repeal of Emergency Manager Law Part of NAACP's Flint Plan - ABC News
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poweRob said:
Here's the hurdle... They passed the emergency manager law and the citizens got together and made an referendum ballot initiative and overturned it.

Then that slick bastard Snyder and the slimey GOP legislature passed it again with a clause saying "this law cannot be overturned by referendum."

It's a tough road they are on trying to get it undone.
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poweRob said:
Democracy. But of course as an emergency manager lover you don't believe in that sort of thing.
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Sure, repeal the EM law. Care to hazard a guess as to the result of that will be?

I'm betting on more municipalities going into bankruptcy once their corrupt locally elected councils have taken as much money form the municipality as they can and then disappearing with it, leaving a financial black hole for the next administrations. Next stop, shortly thereafter, will be begging the state and the Feds to bail them out.

Such has been the case with many of the municipalities across the country that have gone that route. Does Bell California ring a bell?

Thanks, but no.

There is a reason that an EM law needs to be in place, should be in place, and that reason is to do what has to be done to reduce the probabilities of a municipality not doing what is necessary and bankrupting itself. The EM law has proven itself in a number of Michigan municipalities avoiding bankruptcy, and putting the municipality on better financial footing. After that crisis has passed, the EM departs, and control is returned back to the elected council one again.

I'm not seeing a problem with the EM law.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Now that the NAACP is running around claiming racism was behind this, I have given up on any sort of rational discussion on Flint's water problems.
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Are they doing that?
 
Deuce said:
Are they doing that?
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I think they have backed down from it now, but at first it was labeled everything from "environmental racism" to "systemic" racism because of the demographics of Flint vs. the demographics of whom the NAACP was accusing of making these decisions.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I think they have backed down from it now, but at first it was labeled everything from "environmental racism" to "systemic" racism because of the demographics of Flint vs. the demographics of whom the NAACP was accusing of making these decisions.
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I felt it was a small percentage of the media and couple of media hound type people who were trying to play the race card.

I think most understand was a preventable health tragedy, hopefully never to occur again in any US town or city.

I never read anything about NAACP claiming it happened because of racism.

ETA:

After some goggling I did find a few older articles where the NAACP did question " environmental racism" regarding the Flint water problem.

I was hoping it was only a few media hound types who would do that.
 
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minnie616 said:
I said we need to find out who decided not to use the anti-corrosion agent and why was it decided not to use it?
Was it just to save about a $100 a day?
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Clearly whoever did was not involved in the discussions to switch to the KWA, and eventually the Flint river itself, unless the study was done by Rowe Engineering.

If so, they told in 2011 not to use the Flint river as a source not because of contamination, but because it would require a 50 million dollar investment in upgrading the treatment plant.

Report: Buying in to new water pipeline from Lake Huron cheaper for Flint drinking water than treating river water | MLive.com

The most cost-effective drinking water option for the city of Flint would be to finance and build a new $300-million water pipeline with Genesee County and other areas, according to a new report done for the city.
Pumping the water from Lake Huron would be cheaper over time than buying water from Detroit, which the city has done for decades, or treating Flint River water, according to the analysis done by Rowe Engineering and presented to the Flint City Council tonight.
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Samhain said:
Clearly whoever did was not involved in the discussions to switch to the KWA, and eventually the Flint river itself, unless the study was done by Rowe Engineering.

If so, they told in 2011 not to use the Flint river as a source not because of contamination, but because it would require a 50 million dollar investment in upgrading the treatment plant.

Report: Buying in to new water pipeline from Lake Huron cheaper for Flint drinking water than treating river water | MLive.com
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Correct...not contamination ....too corrosive.

The study determined the Flint was very corrosive ( saline , natural and road salt ) and needed an anti- corrosive agent added to it.

According to Marc Edwards, the Virginia Tech team’s lead hydrologist, the problem with Flint River water is that it’s highly corrosive—about 19 times more than Detroit water. That corrosiveness is breaking down old lead pipes and soldering that connect homes to water mains.

Water usually becomes capable of destroying metal when it’s got lots of salt in it. How does salt get into the Flint River? Edwards says it occurs naturally to an extent, but that the big culprit is likely road salt, which is mostly sodium chloride. It’s estimated that about the U.S. uses about 109 pounds of road salt per person every year. Cities actually faced road salt shortages last winter because demand was greater than ever.

“There are many other utilities in the Northeast that have been seeing these rising chloride levels,” says Edwards. “We’re working with utilities that had had no lead problem up until recently. As road salt use rose, it reached a trigger point.”
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minnie616 said:
Correct...not contamination ....too corrosive.

The study determined the Flint was very corrosive ( saline , natural and road salt ) and needed an anti- corrosive agent added to it.
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So you agree, it's not a $100/day fix. Who signed the order to switch to the river without the $50m upgrade?
 
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