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Obama bans solitary confinement for juveniles in federal prisons

Isn't solitary confinement sometimes used as a form of protection?
 
CanadaJohn said:
I agree - it's a bad way to accommodate what amounts to a child in such an environment. I'm sure witness protection isn't much fun either, but in some cases it's the only way to keep someone alive.
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Canada's way of doing things (that you described) has it's own negative consequences. Prison can also be a classroom for criminals where they are teach one another crime. In the US, when a juvenile is sent to adult prison, that is generally because the crime is so heinous they are tried and jailed as adults. Sending those to a juvenile facility where they can teach other juveniles the ropes of heinous crime, not a good solution either.
 
One problem not so far mentioned: many of the 'mental deficiencies' among adult as well as juvenile prisoners will be personality disorders for which their is no treatment.
 
clownboy said:
Canada's way of doing things (that you described) has it's own negative consequences. Prison can also be a classroom for criminals where they are teach one another crime. In the US, when a juvenile is sent to adult prison, that is generally because the crime is so heinous they are tried and jailed as adults. Sending those to a juvenile facility where they can teach other juveniles the ropes of heinous crime, not a good solution either.
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I can't speak to recidivism with any authority, but I'd suggest that the disparity with which Canada treats youth justice and America treats the same youth for equivalent crimes would suggest that youth in America get far more prison time training in the fine art of criminality than Canadian youth do. As an example, you will never see an 11yr old tried as an adult, for any crime, here in Canada.
 
Good.
 
I'm really happy to see such broad agreement on this. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone come out strongly against this. I call that progress.
 
I didn't even know that juvies were in Federal prison in the U.S.

Crazy.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Obama bans solitary confinement for juveniles in federal prisons

Even though this applies to only a select amount of prisoners I will have to say, "thanks Obama!". :applaud Solitary confinement is overused and I think it shouldnt be used on juveniles at all. These new regulations for federal prisons are something I applaud. I hope new regulations like these start to spread to more state prisons.. Its definitely a start. The prison industrial complex is in need of serious reforms. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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Not knowing the exact impact, I have no real opinion on whether this is good or bad. It does seem to me that the whole system from child socialization over education to criminal, jurisprudence and penal need a fundamental change. Measure of the type you mention seem to me a waste of political capital missing in and possibly counterproductive to the necessary fundamental changes.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I can't speak to recidivism with any authority, but I'd suggest that the disparity with which Canada treats youth justice and America treats the same youth for equivalent crimes would suggest that youth in America get far more prison time training in the fine art of criminality than Canadian youth do. As an example, you will never see an 11yr old tried as an adult, for any crime, here in Canada.
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And every moment spent in solitary confinement is time in which he is not being trained. ;)
 
Hawkeye10 said:
There are about 2,000 under age 21 in Federal Prisons.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_age.jsp

How many have been in solitary? Is the number above 0?

We dont know, but we do know this this is much ado about little....typical Obama.

Re "low level" offenders also not being allowed to be put in Solitary I have a problem with that....I dont care what you are in for, attack a guard or an inmate then the officials should be able to deal with you by punishing you solitary, though there should be length limits. If Trump is the next guy in the chair I think he overturns this order on day one, at least so far as making the original charge forbid solitary.
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Are the ages between 18 and 21 now considered juvenile?
 
Mason66 said:
There is no such thing as a non-violent drug offender.
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Interesting theory. I've never bought illegal drugs personally, but I've seen it done and there was no violence. One person with money hands it to the seller who then delivered the desired product at a mutually agreeable price. Willing buyer and seller engaging in commerce. I'm unclear what about that transaction is inherently violent.
 
JasperL said:
Interesting theory. I've never bought illegal drugs personally, but I've seen it done and there was no violence. One person with money hands it to the seller who then delivered the desired product at a mutually agreeable price. Willing buyer and seller engaging in commerce. I'm unclear what about that transaction is inherently violent.
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What got those drugs into the hands of your supposed non-violent drug dealer.

Do you really not know about the violence associated every step of the way with drug dealing?
 
Mason66 said:
What got those drugs into the hands of your supposed non-violent drug dealer.

Do you really not know about the violence associated every step of the way with drug dealing?
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Well, it depends, doesn't it? I have within reach as we speak a bottle of oxy prescribed to someone else but who didn't use it. I don't know what the market is exactly but best I can tell it's worth about $300-$450 ($10-15 per pill). I could sell it very easily, and no violence anywhere.

Besides, if you're going to attribute the violence in the supply chain down to the corner dealer who didn't in fact engage in any violence, then there is also no such thing as a non-violent user and we should (I guess) also lock them up for long sentences.

Finally, it's our own stupid policies that create the violence, so creating market rules where violence is inevitable and then locking people up for the violence our own stupid War on (some) Drugs (used by some people) makes a guarantee is pretty lame. During prohibition, lots of violence associated with alcohol. We ended prohibition and the violence stopped! Miracle!!
 
JasperL said:
Well, it depends, doesn't it? I have within reach as we speak a bottle of oxy prescribed to someone else but who didn't use it. I don't know what the market is exactly but best I can tell it's worth about $300-$450 ($10-15 per pill). I could sell it very easily, and no violence anywhere.

Besides, if you're going to attribute the violence in the supply chain down to the corner dealer who didn't in fact engage in any violence, then there is also no such thing as a non-violent user and we should (I guess) also lock them up for long sentences.

Finally, it's our own stupid policies that create the violence, so creating market rules where violence is inevitable and then locking people up for the violence our own stupid War on (some) Drugs (used by some people) makes a guarantee is pretty lame. During prohibition, lots of violence associated with alcohol. We ended prohibition and the violence stopped! Miracle!!
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Sounds good to me and that would be best for society.
 
JasperL said:
Interesting theory. I've never bought illegal drugs personally, but I've seen it done and there was no violence. One person with money hands it to the seller who then delivered the desired product at a mutually agreeable price. Willing buyer and seller engaging in commerce. I'm unclear what about that transaction is inherently violent.
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Sure, the Mexican drug cartels are swell people.
 
Mason66 said:
Sounds good to me and that would be best for society.
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LOL, OK, another authoritarian right winger.

But I see your point. After all, prohibition worked out so well! :shock: :roll:
 
Erod said:
Sure, the Mexican drug cartels are swell people.
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I didn't actually mention the cartels, but from your response are you suggesting that all drug sellers are members of a Mexican drug cartel or other violent gang?
 
JasperL said:
LOL, OK, another authoritarian right winger.

But I see your point. After all, prohibition worked out so well! :shock: :roll:
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People are not hanging from overpasses because of prescription drugs.

My friend and everybody that was at his stereo shop were not kidnapped and are still missing because of prescription drugs.

This all happens because of the illegal drug trade so please don't try to change the subject to your little bottle of pills.

If more scumbags were removed from society that would leave room and more resources for decent people to get ahead in life.

For your information drug sellers and user are the scumbags.
 
Mason66 said:
People are not hanging from overpasses because of prescription drugs.

My friend and everybody that was at his stereo shop were not kidnapped and are still missing because of prescription drugs.

This all happens because of the illegal drug trade so please don't try to change the subject to your little bottle of pills.

If more scumbags were removed from society that would leave room and more resources for decent people to get ahead in life.

For your information drug sellers and user are the scumbags.
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So are people who drink, and drug kingpins like John McCain (the Senator) also "scumbags?" What's the difference? Far more damage to society is done by alcohol than illegal drugs combined.

What you're also not recognizing is it's our War on Drugs that creates the violence. It happened with prohibition and we're too damn stupid to learn from our mistakes in that dumb experiment.

BTW, you don't say where you're from but the big problems in my area of the country (roughly the Appalachian mountain region) are exactly through those little bottles of pills. Read a little and see the overdose deaths those little bottles are causing - the deaths are reaching crisis levels in some counties. This is an old graph - it's far worse now.

drug_od_fg4.jpg

When they crack down on the pain pills, the addicts turn to heroin. Same basic stuff, but one is made by a publicly traded company that's raking in the profits off illegal sales and use.
 
JasperL said:
I didn't actually mention the cartels, but from your response are you suggesting that all drug sellers are members of a Mexican drug cartel or other violent gang?
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They are exactly the same thing as a man who watches child pornography.
 
JasperL said:
So are people who drink, and drug kingpins like John McCain (the Senator) also "scumbags?" What's the difference? Far more damage to society is done by alcohol than illegal drugs combined.

What you're also not recognizing is it's our War on Drugs that creates the violence. It happened with prohibition and we're too damn stupid to learn from our mistakes in that dumb experiment.

BTW, you don't say where you're from but the big problems in my area of the country (roughly the Appalachian mountain region) are exactly through those little bottles of pills. Read a little and see the overdose deaths those little bottles are causing - the deaths are reaching crisis levels in some counties. This is an old graph - it's far worse now.

View attachment 67196336

When they crack down on the pain pills, the addicts turn to heroin. Same basic stuff, but one is made by a publicly traded company that's raking in the profits off illegal sales and use.
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Can you focus on what we are talking about?

I have no use for alcohol users either, but that is not the subject.

I am in Sinaloa Mexico. El Chapo was caught 5 houses away from my sons school. I am right in the middle of the war and see it every day.

You can isolate yourself from it if you chose, I cannot. You can be blind if you wish, I cannot.

The war on drugs did not cause anything. Legalization will not be the magic pill you think it would be.

If you use drugs, which I would guess you do, you are a scumbag.
 
Mason66 said:
Can you focus on what we are talking about?

I have no use for alcohol users either, but that is not the subject.

I am in Sinaloa Mexico. El Chapo was caught 5 houses away from my sons school. I am right in the middle of the war and see it every day.

You can isolate yourself from it if you chose, I cannot. You can be blind if you wish, I cannot.

The war on drugs did not cause anything. Legalization will not be the magic pill you think it would be.
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If drugs were legal, there would be about as much drug smuggling in Mexico as there is alcohol. So, if someone wants Mexican streets free of drug lords and smugglers, they would be in favor of the US legalizing it.


If you use drugs, which I would guess you do, you are a scumbag.
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If you smuggle drugs, which I would guess you do, you are a scumbag
 
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Mason66 said:
What got those drugs into the hands of your supposed non-violent drug dealer.

Do you really not know about the violence associated every step of the way with drug dealing?
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By this metric every single person in the world is a violent offender.
 
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