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Ringling Bros. to Retire All Circus Elephants in May — 2 Years Early

no point in going to the circus now although it has been a while in any event.
animals can't survive in the wild and would die.

organizations like Ringling's and sea world and other zoo's etc take them in and keep them alive and comfortable.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I believe that elephants are very smart and as such they get and dig the adoration of the crowds.


I say the same out killer whales.

This prohibition against letting them make us happy and receive our joy in return is stupid, it is condensention disguised as caring.
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Killer Whales have evolved over tens of thousands of years to roam the oceans. They can cover over 10,000 miles in a year. There is no way in the world that they are content living in an aquarium.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Killer Whales have evolved over tens of thousands of years to roam the oceans. They can cover over 10,000 miles in a year. There is no way in the world that they are content living in an aquarium.
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I can roam the planet and yet these days I dont want to leave my town. Some People dont leave their homes for years because they say they are too afraid to.

Very weak argument from you.

Have you anything better?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I can roam the planet and yet these days I dont want to leave my town. Some People dont leave their homes for years because they say they are too afraid to.

Very weak argument from you.

Have you anything better?
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You just projected YOUR human thought process and reasoning onto killer whales and you want ME to come up with a better argument?:lol:

Killer Whales don't share a lot in common with humans.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
You just projected YOUR human thought process and reasoning onto killer whales and you want ME to come up with a better argument?:lol:

Killer Whales don't share a lot in common with humans.
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But then again, me being Zen, I dont agree with you.....
 
tres borrachos said:
No they don't, you're right about that. Poachers are vicious and hideous people. These elephants will actually be safe in the sanctuary.
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I wonder if it's possible to drug wild elephants and saw their tusks off, or would there be a lot of pain when the sedative wore off. They should do that with rhinos- there's no nerve in a rhino horn.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I can roam the planet and yet these days I dont want to leave my town. Some People dont leave their homes for years because they say they are too afraid to.

Very weak argument from you.

Have you anything better?
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There's a difference between migratory and sedentary.
You know that, though. That was you, making a very weak argument, wasn't it.
 
Grand Mal said:
There's a difference between migratory and sedentary.
You know that, though. That was you, making a very weak argument, wasn't it.
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And how many migratory humans (nomads) remain on earth? Not many, they transitioned, and I have no evidence that any harm was done to their happiness or well being.

Ball is in your court Champ.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
And how many migratory humans remain earth? Not many, they transitioned, and I have no evidence that any harm was done to their happiness or well being.

Ball is in your court Champ.
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What? Are you saying that transient populations of orcas should 'tansition'?

Damn. I don't even think that's a verb.
 
Grand Mal said:
I wonder if it's possible to drug wild elephants and saw their tusks off, or would there be a lot of pain when the sedative wore off. They should do that with rhinos- there's no nerve in a rhino horn.
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They can, GMal, but unfortunately about 1/3 of the ivory in the tusk is embedded below the skin, in the skull. Greedy poachers want the entire thing, so they kill them so they can extract the tusk from the skull. And that lower third also contains a lot of blood vessels and nerves so they can feel it.

It's quite dangerous to sedate an elephant. They can easily die from being overmedicated and it's hard to regulate because of their size.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Just because we do bad things to ourselves does not mean its OK that we do bad things to sentient creatures like elephants. Elephants are some of the most intelligent animals in the entire animal kingdom. They experience every single emotion that we do. In fact they are one of the few animals that experiences empathy. They really are fascinating, you should read the Elephant Whisperer. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6375561-the-elephant-whisperer
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It's an excellent book.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I can roam the planet and yet these days I dont want to leave my town. Some People dont leave their homes for years because they say they are too afraid to.

Very weak argument from you.

Have you anything better?
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Do you know anything at all about elephants? None of your posts give any indication that you do. It's pretty frustrating for those of us who actually care to see absurd arguments being made by people who know nothing about the subject.
 
tres borrachos said:
They can, GMal, but unfortunately about 1/3 of the ivory in the tusk is embedded below the skin, in the skull. Greedy poachers want the entire thing, so they kill them so they can extract the tusk from the skull. And that lower third also contains a lot of blood vessels and nerves so they can feel it.

It's quite dangerous to sedate an elephant. They can easily die from being overmedicated and it's hard to regulate because of their size.
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Too bad. I wonder how elephant sedative would work on an ivory poacher? Needs to be looked into...
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I can roam the planet and yet these days I dont want to leave my town. Some People dont leave their homes for years because they say they are too afraid to.
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That is your choice. These animals aren't given a choice.
 
Scrabaholic said:
That is your choice. These animals aren't given a choice.
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But are they given a better life, because that is the question. The average zoo elephant lives for 17 years, of all the elephants that this circus has owned what it the average age they live to? I looked but did not find the answer.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
But how long do Circus elephants live? If it is longer than the do nothings at the zoo then leave the circus alone.
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I highly doubt they live longer in circuses. Whatever captivity-induced problem makes them die so young in zoos very likely makes them die young in circuses as well.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
And how many migratory humans (nomads) remain on earth? Not many, they transitioned, and I have no evidence that any harm was done to their happiness or well being.

Ball is in your court Champ.
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European gypsies are still nomads loads of them in the UK and mainland Europe
 
Hawkeye10 said:
But are they given a better life, because that is the question. The average zoo elephant lives for 17 years, of all the elephants that this circus has owned what it the average age they live to? I looked but did not find the answer.
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Why not just make the argument that slavery was okay because slaves lived longer than free Africans.:roll:
 
WCH said:
Yep send them all back to poacher land.
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Sending them to "poacher land" or forcing them to perform for our entertainment are not the only options.

Forcing creatures as intelligent as elephants to perform for us against their will is not ok.
 
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