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U.S. Spy Net on Israel Snares Congress

cpwill

cpwill

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What...... the....... ****.

I'm a pretty solid pro-collection, pro-national security guy. I don't have a problem with us collecting against Israel, Germany, France, or any non-FVEYS partner nation (they collect on us, after all). I think the metadata program is problematic, but I've defended it as at least Constitutional and potentially useful.

But collecting on Congress is beyond the pale. The Executive Branch does not get to use its Military (the NSA is DOD) or Intelligence authorities and powers to target other branches of government or purely political opposition in any shape or form, even if they are interested in topics that touch foreign policy.

This kind of thing, and the normalization and acceptance of this kind of thing is a direct threat to our Constitutional form of government.

President Barack Obama announced two years ago he would curtail eavesdropping on friendly heads of state after the world learned the reach of long-secret U.S. surveillance programs.

But behind the scenes, the White House decided to keep certain allies under close watch, current and former U.S. officials said. Topping the list was Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu....

The National Security Agency’s targeting of Israeli leaders and officials also swept up the contents of some of their private conversations with U.S. lawmakers and American-Jewish groups... White House officials believed the intercepted information could be valuable to counter Mr. Netanyahu’s campaign. They also recognized that asking for it was politically risky. So, wary of a paper trail stemming from a request, the White House let the NSA decide what to share and what to withhold, officials said. “We didn’t say, ‘Do it,’ ” a senior U.S. official said. “We didn’t say, ‘Don’t do it.’ ”
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1. That is damn near criminal negligence on the part of "un-named White House officials"
2. And whoever at NSA ultimately approved that tasker and keeping and reporting that data needs to lose their clearance and be barred from government work.
 
We were warned 45 years ago of the potential abuses of the NSA, and we've seen them during the Bush administration, and throughout the Obama administration.
 
But isn't this how the game is played? Keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer?
 
States don't have friends - they have interests.
 
People needed to be shocked a long time ago for this to matter. That ship has set sail. This kind of behavior is normal now. :shrug:

Not saying I condone it, but you get the government that you ask for.

If you're pro-NSA then you have no right to be upset over this.
 
Bibi and Israel are clearly antagonistic to American interests if not overt enemies. Joe Lieberman AIPAC and sadly many governmental officials are in league with them. I'm not surprised we are keeping an eye on them.
 
Anyone watch the documentary on Snowden yet? Its called Citizen Four. I would suggest you watch it because it is a pretty scary movie. Every phone conversation and everything on the internet has been intercepted and stored by the NSA and they can pull it out any time. Individual privacy no longer exists. Be very afraid.
 
cpwill said:
What...... the....... ****.

I'm a pretty solid pro-collection, pro-national security guy. I don't have a problem with us collecting against Israel, Germany, France, or any non-FVEYS partner nation (they collect on us, after all). I think the metadata program is problematic, but I've defended it as at least Constitutional and potentially useful.

But collecting on Congress is beyond the pale. The Executive Branch does not get to use its Military (the NSA is DOD) or Intelligence authorities and powers to target other branches of government or purely political opposition in any shape or form, even if they are interested in topics that touch foreign policy.

This kind of thing, and the normalization and acceptance of this kind of thing is a direct threat to our Constitutional form of government.



1. That is damn near criminal negligence on the part of "un-named White House officials"
2. And whoever at NSA ultimately approved that tasker and keeping and reporting that data needs to lose their clearance and be barred from government work.
Click to expand...

A number of issues come to mind, including the ones you point out, plus the political question... "Why do US Jews have any loyalty to the Democratic Party when they have done everything possible to undermine and alienate Bibi and other Israeli leaders?"

As for the legality of spying on another branch of government and/or Constitutional ramifications of crapping on the separation of powers, this White House has not just blurred the lines, but in many case totally erased the lines - Laws? What laws? We issued an EO and that's all we need.
 
PoS said:
Anyone watch the documentary on Snowden yet? Its called Citizen Four. I would suggest you watch it because it is a pretty scary movie. Every phone conversation and everything on the internet has been intercepted and stored by the NSA and they can pull it out any time. Individual privacy no longer exists. Be very afraid.
Click to expand...

Greetings, PoS. :2wave:

I haven't seen it. Where do I look?
 
cpwill said:
What...... the....... ****.

I'm a pretty solid pro-collection, pro-national security guy. I don't have a problem with us collecting against Israel, Germany, France, or any non-FVEYS partner nation (they collect on us, after all). I think the metadata program is problematic, but I've defended it as at least Constitutional and potentially useful.

But collecting on Congress is beyond the pale. The Executive Branch does not get to use its Military (the NSA is DOD) or Intelligence authorities and powers to target other branches of government or purely political opposition in any shape or form, even if they are interested in topics that touch foreign policy.

This kind of thing, and the normalization and acceptance of this kind of thing is a direct threat to our Constitutional form of government.



1. That is damn near criminal negligence on the part of "un-named White House officials"
2. And whoever at NSA ultimately approved that tasker and keeping and reporting that data needs to lose their clearance and be barred from government work.
Click to expand...

I hit a paywall so I am just going off what is in your post.
NSA spying on congressman? I wonder how many people will rationalize/justify this. There is no reason for this. And who the hell does the administration think they are trying to sway an election in another country?
White House officials believed the intercepted information could be valuable to counter Mr. Netanyahu’s campaign.
Click to expand...
 
NonoBadDog said:
I hit a paywall so I am just going off what is in your post.
NSA spying on congressman? I wonder how many people will rationalize/justify this. There is no reason for this. And who the hell does the administration think they are trying to sway an election in another country?
Click to expand...

As far back (probably even before) J E Hoover this type of spying has happened. And not only have we a long history of involving ourselves in foreign elections, when our influence/interference fails in that, we regime change governments.
 
Northern Light said:
People needed to be shocked a long time ago for this to matter. That ship has set sail. This kind of behavior is normal now. :shrug:

Not saying I condone it, but you get the government that you ask for.

If you're pro-NSA then you have no right to be upset over this.
Click to expand...

Very well said. If a populace is conditioned to accept torture as being necessary and legitimate, that populace can be conditioned to accept anything. Rationalization is aided by propaganda.

We have been, and are still being, conditioned to see a muslim terrorist behind every tree. Clearly, as Joe McCarthy would say if he were here, we can see them in Congress too.
 
Montecresto said:
As far back (probably even before) J E Hoover this type of spying has happened. And not only have we a long history of involving ourselves in foreign elections, when our influence/interference fails in that, we regime change governments.
Click to expand...

I am not worried about the spying as much as I am the attempted influence on their elections and catching information from our law makers. Wed spy on them, they spy on us. We spying on us is another problem.
 
NonoBadDog said:
I am not worried about the spying as much as I am the attempted influence on their elections and catching information from our law makers. Wed spy on them, they spy on us. We spying on us is another problem.
Click to expand...

Yeah, messing with others' elections is really bad. Spying on Israel... doesn't bother me one bit. We keep catching them spying on us.
 
cpwill said:
What...... the....... ****.

I'm a pretty solid pro-collection, pro-national security guy. I don't have a problem with us collecting against Israel, Germany, France, or any non-FVEYS partner nation (they collect on us, after all). I think the metadata program is problematic, but I've defended it as at least Constitutional and potentially useful.
But collecting on Congress is beyond the pale. The Executive Branch does not get to use its Military (the NSA is DOD) or Intelligence authorities and powers to target other branches of government or purely political opposition in any shape or form, even if they are interested in topics that touch foreign policy.
This kind of thing, and the normalization and acceptance of this kind of thing is a direct threat to our Constitutional form of government.
1. That is damn near criminal negligence on the part of "un-named White House officials"
2. And whoever at NSA ultimately approved that tasker and keeping and reporting that data needs to lose their clearance and be barred from government work.
Click to expand...
Barrack Obama may learn all sorts of things about Israel, or other world nations, but what good does it do him? Has he reacted to any of this information?
It seems not, at least in any meaningful way.

I get the feeling that all this listening in is treated more like gossip than intelligence. The only real danger is that Obama may have leaked information to some Arab countries.
 
NonoBadDog said:
I am not worried about the spying as much as I am the attempted influence on their elections and catching information from our law makers. Wed spy on them, they spy on us. We spying on us is another problem.
Click to expand...

But that was my point, we've been interfering with foreign elections, forever. And regime changing them when that fails. :shrug:
 
Most of the espionage by Israel against the US is conducted by AIPAC inside the Beltway. Effectively, AIPAC is a collection of agents of a foreign government, and should be registered as such.

If Lieberman and others are Israeli citizens, dual citizens, we have a situation in which Congress is partly occupied by foreign citizens. Is that really a good thing, and does our spying on Israel really carry as much weight as their spying on us?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Most of the espionage by Israel against the US is conducted by AIPAC inside the Beltway. Effectively, AIPAC is a collection of agents of a foreign government, and should be registered as such.

If Lieberman and others are Israeli citizens, dual citizens, we have a situation in which Congress is partly occupied by foreign citizens. Is that really a good thing, and does our spying on Israel really carry as much weight as their spying on us?
Click to expand...

Nailed it. Like Lieberman they are Israeli first ears. Nothing wrong with that except that it should be a U.S. Election disqualifier. Heck even Cruz renounced his Canadian citizenship. In any event Israel and AIPAC should expect to be spied on.
 
cpwill said:
What...... the....... ****.

I'm a pretty solid pro-collection, pro-national security guy. I don't have a problem with us collecting against Israel, Germany, France, or any non-FVEYS partner nation (they collect on us, after all). I think the metadata program is problematic, but I've defended it as at least Constitutional and potentially useful.

But collecting on Congress is beyond the pale. The Executive Branch does not get to use its Military (the NSA is DOD) or Intelligence authorities and powers to target other branches of government or purely political opposition in any shape or form, even if they are interested in topics that touch foreign policy.

This kind of thing, and the normalization and acceptance of this kind of thing is a direct threat to our Constitutional form of government.



1. That is damn near criminal negligence on the part of "un-named White House officials"
2. And whoever at NSA ultimately approved that tasker and keeping and reporting that data needs to lose their clearance and be barred from government work.
Click to expand...

**** congress.It is okay for the government to spy on us, then it is okay for the government to do this **** to congress. I could care less if its politically motivated.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Most of the espionage by Israel against the US is conducted by AIPAC inside the Beltway. Effectively, AIPAC is a collection of agents of a foreign government, and should be registered as such.

If Lieberman and others are Israeli citizens, dual citizens, we have a situation in which Congress is partly occupied by foreign citizens. Is that really a good thing, and does our spying on Israel really carry as much weight as their spying on us?
Click to expand...
If they are dual citizens they are not foreign citizens.
 
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