• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

U.S. Spy Net on Israel Snares Congress

Grant said:
If they are dual citizens they are not foreign citizens.
Click to expand...

Half foreign, and half domestic, eh? And so their loyalties are thusly split. Which country, which government to favor? The US or my other country? A crisis of conscience?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Half foreign, and half domestic, eh? And so their loyalties are thusly split. Which country, which government to favor? The US or my other country? A crisis of conscience?
Click to expand...

This is why people with dual citizenship should be banned from elected and appointed offices.
 
1. Got no problem spying on Israel. They spy on us.

2. In the process of monitoring Israel, if the intel happens to snag communications directly from the GOI to sitting American politicians/congressmen, etc., offering bribes to undercut the sitting P.O.T.U.S., and influence American policy to favor Israel, I would be more concerned with investigating those that may have fell into Israel's traitorous fly-trap and get them up on charges as soon as possible.

But, for reasons I can't understand, most people on this thread want to focus on whether or not the intel was garnered appropriately. If the congressman responded to Israel's call with a polite, "No thank you. We are not interested." They got nothing to worry about. If they took the bait, we have traitor's sitting in our marbled halls. But let's talk about the rights and wrongs of privacy expectations instead. Deflect much?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Half foreign, and half domestic, eh? And so their loyalties are thusly split. Which country, which government to favor? The US or my other country? A crisis of conscience?
Click to expand...
Where is the evidence their loyalties are split? You're making charges without any evidence.
 
NonoBadDog said:
I hit a paywall so I am just going off what is in your post.
NSA spying on congressman? I wonder how many people will rationalize/justify this. There is no reason for this. And who the hell does the administration think they are trying to sway an election in another country?
Click to expand...

why would you expect elected officials to be exempt from such intense scrutiny in a way other citizens are not? holding significant political power, they can inflict significant political damage
 
justabubba said:
why would you expect elected officials to be exempt from such intense scrutiny in a way other citizens are not? holding significant political power, they can inflict significant political damage
Click to expand...

:congrats: Meaning everybody should want them held to an even higher standard. :shrug:
 
Last edited:
justabubba said:
why would you expect elected officials to be exempt from such intense scrutiny in a way other citizens are not? holding significant political power, they can inflict significant political damage
Click to expand...

It is so obvious why the president's administration should not be spying on Congress. I don't think they should be spying on the average citizen either but they are going to. It is legal right now but to spy on Congress is illegal. I seem to remember the CIA getting caught doing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2cbc2c-a923-11e3-8599-ce7295b6851c_story.html

A behind-the-scenes battle between the CIA and Congress erupted in public Tuesday as the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee accused the agency of breaking laws and breaching constitutional principles in an alleged effort to undermine the panel’s multi-year investigation of a controversial interrogation program.

Chairman Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) accused the CIA of *secretly removing documents, searching computers used by the committee and attempting to intimidate congressional investigators by requesting an FBI inquiry of their conduct — charges that CIA Director John Brennan disputed within hours of her appearance on the Senate floor.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
NonoBadDog said:
It is so obvious why the president's administration should not be spying on Congress. I don't think they should be spying on the average citizen either but they are going to. It is legal right now but to spy on Congress is illegal. I seem to remember the CIA getting caught doing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2cbc2c-a923-11e3-8599-ce7295b6851c_story.html
Click to expand...


She has an interesting record:

In August 2007, Feinstein joined Republicans in the Senate in voting to modify the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) by narrowing the scope of its protections to sharply alter the legal limits on the government's ability to monitor phone calls and email messages of American citizens
After the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures involving operated by the National Security Agency (NSA), Feinstein took measures to continue the collection programs. Foreign Policy wrote that she had a "reputation as a staunch defender of NSA practices
In June 2013 Feinstein labeled Edward Snowden a traitor after his leaks went public.
Click to expand...

Political positions of Dianne Feinstein

Its amusing the level of hypocrisy these people and their supporters portray, what happened to: if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear?

Spying on Congress and Israel: NSA Cheerleaders Discover Value of Privacy Only When Their Own Is Violated - The Intercept
 
Last edited:
NonoBadDog said:
It is so obvious why the president's administration should not be spying on Congress. I don't think they should be spying on the average citizen either but they are going to. It is legal right now but to spy on Congress is illegal. I seem to remember the CIA getting caught doing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2cbc2c-a923-11e3-8599-ce7295b6851c_story.html
Click to expand...

Long before that. It was the Church committee that was commissioned in 1975 to investigate both CIA and NSA wrong doing. Do you recall senator Church's dire warning about the NSA? And I don't know why you think that it's legal for the government to spy on all Americans or why you'd be nonchalant about it, and the fourth amendment. :shrug:
 
Montecresto said:
Long before that. It was the Church committee that was commissioned in 1975 to investigate both CIA and NSA wrong doing. Do you recall senator Church's dire warning about the NSA? And I don't know why you think that it's legal for the government to spy on all Americans or why you'd be nonchalant about it, and the fourth amendment. :shrug:
Click to expand...

It sort of depends on what is meant, when someone says that government spys on all Americans. I don't see that happening. There have certainly been incidental cases of infringement that were illegal. Those should be fucused on. Also we should concentrate an effort on how to check and balance the additional power that new technologies of data mining and processing means. But to lament the Good Olde Days, because they were simpler would be a fool's errant errand.
 
Grant said:
Where is the evidence their loyalties are split? You're making charges without any evidence.
Click to expand...

Did you notice the questionmarks at the end of my sentences????? I'm sure you know the meaning of a questionmark, or am I????

I didn't make any 'charges' Grant, I posed questions.

Can you imagine being in that position sir????? Being a citizen of 2 different countries and governments, and serving in the government of one of them????? Imagine the hypothetical that a vote came up that might penalize the other country, the one whose government you did NOT serve in, at least publically??????

Do you not see potential conflict of interests??????

With the exception of one sentence there Grant, those are all questions to be discussed, if you wish.
 
joG said:
It sort of depends on what is meant, when someone says that government spys on all Americans. I don't see that happening. There have certainly been incidental cases of infringement that were illegal. Those should be fucused on. Also we should concentrate an effort on how to check and balance the additional power that new technologies of data mining and processing means. But to lament the Good Olde Days, because they were simpler would be a fool's errant errand.
Click to expand...

Who said that? And the Snowden disclosures contradict you! Watch Citesenfour if you're still in doubt.
 
NonoBadDog said:
It is so obvious why the president's administration should not be spying on Congress. I don't think they should be spying on the average citizen either but they are going to. It is legal right now but to spy on Congress is illegal. I seem to remember the CIA getting caught doing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...2cbc2c-a923-11e3-8599-ce7295b6851c_story.html
Click to expand...

The only time it is legal for the government to "spy" on citizens is when a warrant has been issued by a court in accordance with the Fourth Amendment. Absent that warrant, it is illegal.

Yes, we have been told it is legal, and as you demonstrate many of us actually think it is legal, but we have been "told" all sorts of untruths. We have been conditioned to think everything the government does is legal. It's not true.
 
Montecresto said:
Who said that? And the Snowden disclosures contradict you! Watch Citesenfour if you're still in doubt.
Click to expand...

If you are for increasingly more collection, processing and mining of information plus new checks and balances so that misuse becomes more transparent and robustly controlled? Sounds fine. Snowden must go to jail, of course.
 
joG said:
If you are for increasingly more collection, processing and mining of information plus new checks and balances so that misuse becomes more transparent and robustly controlled? Sounds fine. Snowden must go to jail, of course.
Click to expand...

Some of us, Snowden included (watch CitezenFour) amongst them, consider the fourth amendment an indispensable element to freedom and democracy. Snowden as Church are patriots. Only fools want them jailed.
 
Montecresto said:
Some of us, Snowden included (watch CitezenFour) amongst them, consider the fourth amendment an indispensable element to freedom and democracy. Snowden as Church are patriots. Only fools want them jailed.
Click to expand...

Of course the 4th is indispensable. Where's the problem? Why publish foreign activities indiscriminately? I don't see what you mean.
 
joG said:
Of course the 4th is indispensable. Where's the problem? Why publish foreign activities indiscriminately? I don't see what you mean.
Click to expand...

Watch CitezenFour.
 
Thoreau72 said:
The only time it is legal for the government to "spy" on citizens is when a warrant has been issued by a court in accordance with the Fourth Amendment. Absent that warrant, it is illegal.

Yes, we have been told it is legal, and as you demonstrate many of us actually think it is legal, but we have been "told" all sorts of untruths. We have been conditioned to think everything the government does is legal. It's not true.
Click to expand...

My point is different than what you want to discuss and different than the thread. If you want to discuss the details about spying on citizens start a thread. You would probably be surprised at how much we would agree on. However this thread is about the administration spying on Congress.
 
NonoBadDog said:
My point is different than what you want to discuss and different than the thread. If you want to discuss the details about spying on citizens start a thread. You would probably be surprised at how much we would agree on. However this thread is about the administration spying on Congress.
Click to expand...

members of congress are not citizens?

why the hell did i not already know this
 
NonoBadDog said:
My point is different than what you want to discuss and different than the thread. If you want to discuss the details about spying on citizens start a thread. You would probably be surprised at how much we would agree on. However this thread is about the administration spying on Congress.
Click to expand...

Right, and my point that since the government is so accustomed to spying on the entire world, and Congress is divided along partisan lines, why are we surprised that the government spies upon itself?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Right, and my point that since the government is so accustomed to spying on the entire world, and Congress is divided along partisan lines, why are we surprised that the government spies upon itself?
Click to expand...

I bet you will find that Congress is going to be pretty unified when it comes to the NSA spying on their activities ad members of Congress for the administration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom