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Inside Britain's sharia courts

starcitizen said:
It is binding under a loophole under UK law and these sharia courts are of the puritanical salafist variety and you should be outraged because they deal specifically with cases dealing with the most vulnerable members of the Muslim community IE women.
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Show us the loophole.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I got to wondering about these "Sharia Law" courts and how they operate in Britain. Can they really hand down draconian punishments based on seventh century laws? I found this:



Sounds a bit like the Catholic church granting or not granting divorces.
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if you think Sharia law is anything like the Catholic church and their stance on divorce then you know nothing of Sharia law
 
Mr Person said:
The article seems to be about religious leaders helping their flock follow religious law. What exactly are they "taking"?

Don't members of the Christian clergy do the same things? Yes. Yes they do.



So what's the objection? Are muslims supposed to abandon their religion upon entering a Western country or something?
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the parts that break humanitarian boundries yes...there is no place for Sharia law in the west....NO place
 
Sherman123 said:
Actually they do. Religious 'courts' are very common in the United States and operate on the basis of voluntary submission to those clerical authorities. Furthermore if individuals sign a binding arbitration agreement, which is frequently a precondition to utilizing their tribunals, then the decision of that tribunal is binding in secular courts. This is how Sharia, Halakhic, and other religious courts operate every day in the United States. There are some obvious exceptions to this but generally it is the norm.
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And for Jewish women, receiving a "Get" at times, and far to frequently can be darn near impossible.

An orthodox woman’s 3-year divorce fight | New York Post
 
Hatuey said:
Some info on the topic:

Religious Laws Long Recognized By U.S. Courts : NPR



Applying God?s Law: Religious Courts and Mediation in the U.S. | Pew Research Center



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_din



It seems as if "religious courts" are already happening... and their existence has been corroborated by various sources. Apparently, the only problem is when Muslims do it. At least, that's the problem from where I'm standing. Anyways, I'm down for getting rid of all of this hocus pocus nonsense where secular laws can be bypassed just as long as you have the right religion. Let's ban Muslims, Christians and Jews from doing it or let's have everyone do it the decision is up to the religious on how they want to handle this matter.

I have a weird feeling that we'll only hear more moaning about Muslims from the ban Muslims crowd.
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The issue I have with all of these courts are women are generally on the losing end.
 
_Sal said:
the parts that break humanitarian boundries yes...there is no place for Sharia law in the west....NO place
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If someone did something illegal on advice from a religious leader, they'd still get prosecuted for it.



The freedom of religion protects an individual's right to act on the advice of a religious leader, on any subject, so long as the act is still lawful under our criminal codes....

So if the leader settles their finances with religious advice, they are free to follow that if they want, even if a civil court might divide the estate differently.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
not entirely true, you can always legally agree to have a problem or dispute solved by a private arbitrator. that's exactly what's going on in this article. it's not a "Court" it's "Arbitration" which are two seperate things.
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And the chances of a successful appeal are close to nil.
 
Mr Person said:
If someone did something illegal on advice from a religious leader, they'd still get prosecuted for it.



The freedom of religion protects an individual's right to act on the advice of a religious leader, on any subject, so long as the act is still lawful under our criminal codes....

So if the leader settles their finances with religious advice, they are free to follow that if they want, even if a civil court might divide the estate differently.
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but Sharia law violates our laws in that women are not equal thus how can we condone Sharia court knowing it violates another human beings rights? It doesn't make sense.
 
Natan said:
*sigh* Give them a finger, and they'll take the whole hand. Multiculturalism gone mad.
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And the US is about 10 years behind in the cycle Europe is going through (follow the madness going on in Sweden), but thanks to Islama, the pace to madness in the US is accelerating.
 
Natan said:
*sigh* Give them a finger, and they'll take the whole hand. Multiculturalism gone mad.
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The scary part is that even the majority of what we call peace loving moderate muslims believe they should be subject to Sharia, rather than the law/constitution of the land.....it is driven by their religious beliefs which is nearly impossible to change. Which is why the majority do not assimilate.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I got to wondering about these "Sharia Law" courts and how they operate in Britain. Can they really hand down draconian punishments based on seventh century laws? I found this:



Sounds a bit like the Catholic church granting or not granting divorces.
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It's not like they are cutting off people's hands for stealing bubble gum. Sounds more like marriage consulting and counseling. No different that we have in my neighborhood with the local religious establishments.

This is the Sharia Law the Chicken Little's are afraid of?
 
_Sal said:
if you think Sharia law is anything like the Catholic church and their stance on divorce then you know nothing of Sharia law
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According to the link I found, it's much like that in Britain. I'm aware that sharia law in the Middle Eastern countries is something quite different.
 
Captain America said:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It's not like they are cutting off people's hands for stealing bubble gum. Sounds more like marriage consulting and counseling. No different that we have in my neighborhood with the local religious establishments.

This is the Sharia Law the Chicken Little's are afraid of?
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Actually, I think it's something that only exists in their imaginations, and involves the sort of "justice" that is meted out in the Middle East coming to Europe.
 
Dittohead not! said:
According to the link I found, it's much like that in Britain. I'm aware that sharia law in the Middle Eastern countries is something quite different.
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ah, okay, fair enough

I just cringe when I think of sharia law and allowing it to thrive within our "free" western culture...a goat is worth more than their females are

forgive me...I have a Muslim female friend I am anti much of what their culture teaches due to her
 
_Sal said:
ah, okay, fair enough

I just cringe when I think of sharia law and allowing it to thrive within our "free" western culture...a goat is worth more than their females are

forgive me...I have a Muslim female friend I am anti much of what their culture teaches due to her
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We don't want their medieval idea of justice being spread, of course. When you hear about "Sharia Law" in the west, it does bring up images of people being stoned for adultery and so on, but that's not what's happening.
 
I squarely blame this on the Government. There should only be one method of justice and law and there is multiple alternatives to court preceding - it is not just sharia.

Yes the "rulings" are not legally binding but when in a community - the cultural and religious pressure is enough of an enforcement even when it will be biased against them.
Unfortunately we cannot legislate against those who choose to voluntarily submit to such a system but our Government should never have given it a level of legitimacy
 
Dittohead not! said:
We don't want their medieval idea of justice being spread, of course. When you hear about "Sharia Law" in the west, it does bring up images of people being stoned for adultery and so on, but that's not what's happening.
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what happens in many Muslim homes is not open to you

it is not open to me either but when I became more involved in the Muslim community it allowed me to become more aware because of the females perspective but those who speak out do not speak out for long and remain in the marriage...the goal is to keep them isolated and quiet even within our culture...isolated people are not strong

this court system currently set up in Britain will end because it is male dominated and the decisions are male dominated and the female is always the loser...to support this system is wrong but it is a closed circle not open to our culture...the younger females when exposed to our culture won't tolerate it after a few generations but until then it will prevail because we are ignorant of what takes place and as such support it because we don't know any better

if you google some of the Muslim protests in Britain it will give you a better perspective of just how bad it has become in some areas where you don't venture if you are smart and women WILL cover themselves because it is demanded
 
Laila said:
I squarely blame this on the Government. There should only be one method of justice and law and there is multiple alternatives to court preceding - it is not just sharia.

Yes the "rulings" are not legally binding but when in a community - the cultural and religious pressure is enough of an enforcement even when it will be biased against them.
Unfortunately we cannot legislate against those who choose to voluntarily submit to such a system but our Government should never have given it a level of legitimacy
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yes, this is exactly right and our tolerant attitude is enslaving some
 
Mr Person said:
If someone did something illegal on advice from a religious leader, they'd still get prosecuted for it.



The freedom of religion protects an individual's right to act on the advice of a religious leader, on any subject, so long as the act is still lawful under our criminal codes....

So if the leader settles their finances with religious advice, they are free to follow that if they want, even if a civil court might divide the estate differently.
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_Sal said:
but Sharia law violates our laws in that women are not equal thus how can we condone Sharia court knowing it violates another human beings rights? It doesn't make sense.
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I understand. It's just that the first Amendment protects an individual submitting himself or herself to a religious leader's decision, even if that leader is applying religious doctrine that is unfair to the individual's sex. So long as the leader isn't demanding the individual do something illegal, it stands.


For better or worse, the flip-side of freedom is personal responsibility: a woman subjugating herself to a religious leader who favors the man has to go to the civil law courts, which won't rule based on religion. She has to seek a divorce and separate herself from the subjugation.
 
Mr Person said:
I understand. It's just that the first Amendment protects an individual submitting himself or herself to a religious leader's decision, even if that leader is applying religious doctrine that is unfair to the individual's sex. So long as the leader isn't demanding the individual do something illegal, it stands.


For better or worse, the flip-side of freedom is personal responsibility: a woman subjugating herself to a religious leader who favors the man has to go to the civil law courts, which won't rule based on religion. She has to seek a divorce and separate herself from the subjugation.
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and this is where things get "sticky" simply because we are born with different abilities, and gifts, and as such we are limited some more and some less.

in the west our laws are meant to equalize this ... by virtue of our law we are all supposed to be equal

that simply is wiped away when we lean or cater to a religion or culture simply "because"

it is WRONG

under our law, ALL are equal, ALL are protected, no one is alone

and then we go all soft and abandon the victim here...it is in a word despicable

I am ashamed of this part of our western culture...never before have we been hoodwinked as easily or as easily persuaded to side with the perpetrator over the victim

if we do not correct this, it will be our own undoing
 
_Sal said:
the parts that break humanitarian boundries yes...there is no place for Sharia law in the west....NO place
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Of course, and nobody is objecting to that.

But here's the thing: those "break humanitarian boundries" parts are already illegal.
 
Deuce said:
Of course, and nobody is objecting to that.

But here's the thing: those "break humanitarian boundries" parts are already illegal.
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that is true, but now we have given permission for them to bring their own courts of law into our culture and enforce them...do we moderate these proceedings...no we do not

it may well be illegal to beat your wife with a rod the thickness of your finger (and no thicker) but what happens behind closed doors still happens and now we condone it for that is Sharia law and we have said you may enforce your own laws

it is wrong
 
Captain America said:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It's not like they are cutting off people's hands for stealing bubble gum. Sounds more like marriage consulting and counseling. No different that we have in my neighborhood with the local religious establishments.

This is the Sharia Law the Chicken Little's are afraid of?
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Do you know even know what E Pluribus Unum means?
 
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