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Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her suffering’

Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

You are welcome. My scorn for your disdain of justice and human rights is freely given.

Judging by your postings here your scorn list is much longer than your friends list; I would rather be on the scorn list, so again, thank you!
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

Judging by your postings here your scorn list is much longer than your friends list; I would rather be on the scorn list, so again, thank you!

So, I'm happy to give scorn and you're happy to receive it. Wonderful.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

So Texas is over-reaching by making murder illegal?

Texas can make murder illegal. But a jury decides if someone is innocent or guilty of breaking the law by the evidence presented in a trial. Separation of power is the best way to detour corruption. Also it is imperative that determination of innocent or guilt always err in th favor of innocence. There is nothing worse than punishing the innocent. I would rather a guilty person slip through the cracks because of a lack of evidence.

A government of the people, by the people, and for the people. A government I support.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

The concept of "rule of law" means that people are subject to that law. We determine the law not by unilaterally declaring laws null and void, but via legislation. "The people" are, by design, required to work through their elected officials.



Not quite. It's the prosecutor who decides which laws to apply. The jury in a criminal case decides innocence or guilt.



Not quite. A jury does not get to decide whether or not a specific law is valid, or constitutional. It can't stop a military coup, or end a covert operation, or overturn a law. I certainly hope the other defenses are stronger than juries.

There are also lots of problems with using juries of peers, not the least of which is that even if the jurors are well-educated, most of them have never touched a law journal, and can't distinguish a statute from a lawn jockey. They are often stupendously unqualified to determine the guilt or innocence of a defendant. They have little or no training in the law, and get their ideas about the justice system from TV shows. Juries are typically more easily swayed by emotion and non-legal arguments. Juries aren't good at handling complex cases. There is also no guarantee that a jury will be less biased than a judge. Grand Juries are a joke today, as they almost always turn out how the prosecutor wants.

Yes, we know, millions are brainwashed into thinking that because America uses jury trials, they must be Awesome! Whatever.

Thus: In this case, it is not the job of the jury to decide whether or not euthanasia is just. Their job will be to determine whether or not this man murdered his wife.

If there was ever a less educated jury it would have been in the days of our forefathers who determined that a jury of our peers were the best judge of innocent or guilt. Our forefather were very aware of corruption of government. Our forefathers knew it was more likely a judge would be corrupt and bias over any group of people picked off the streets. Even though in those day most jurors had little or no education. There is no question in my mind whether I would leave my fate in the hands of our corrupt government or the good people that make up this country.

Jury nullification has been mostly used against laws the people do not support or believe in. A lot of classic examples of jury nullification were actually used against slavery laws which the good people of this country refused to enforce. The law is not black and white otherwise evidence would not be necessary. In a country ruled by the people the people should have the final word in the determination of the law.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

So, I'm happy to give scorn and you're happy to receive it. Wonderful.

Got anything else to say? Let me repeat, I don't like what this old man did but I understand it.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

Got anything else to say? Let me repeat, I don't like what this old man did but I understand it.

That's my feeling as well, and I don't see that there is any 'justice' in trying this old man for murder so he can spend the last of his days without his wife of 60 years in a prison.

If he or her doctor or nurses had "killed" her with an overdose of pain meds, or by taking her off a ventilator (or worse in my view, removed a feeding or hydration tube) which happens every day this wouldn't make the news or a topic on DP. We just don't like it that the act that predictably led to her death is so outwardly brutal, but she's no more or less dead and she's no more or less out of her end of life misery.

I'm pretty sure what ultimately killed my dad was an overdose of morphine - they all but took the regulator off and he died peacefully in his 'sleep.' I was in the car on the way to see him when he died, but my brothers and mom were there, they knew what was happening, and that the morphine was probably going to end his life, and allowed the doctors to do that, and it was absolutely the right decision. I don't see a moral or ethical difference between that and what this man did here - just the method is different (assuming that this would have been her wishes, and he acted out of love for his wife of 60 years...).
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

If there was ever a less educated jury it would have been in the days of our forefathers who determined that a jury of our peers were the best judge of innocent or guilt.
Not so much. Juries were not as democratic then as they are now. In almost all of the states, only white male property owners could be on a jury. Many states applied additional criteria, such as paying certain types of taxes, or having "good character." E.g. Delaware required that jurors must be "sober, discreet and judicious freeholders, lawful men and of fair characters, and inhabitants of his bailiwick."

It took decades for juries to become the democratic institution they are today, and it is far from clear -- based on, among other things, the bias many Framers had against democracy -- that today's situation is what they intended.

They were dealing with an environment when colonial governors used the law as a weapon against seditious colonists, and jury nullification was one of the few defenses available. But what works best in one political situation is not necessarily optimal in another;
i.e. just because juries of (a highly restricted pool of) peers was popular in 1790 does not mean that they really do work best, or work best today.

One of those changes? Few criminal cases are presented before a jury. Despite the impressions you may have from Law & Order and TV cops proclaiming "tell it to the jury,"over 95% of cases end in a plea bargain.

The world has changed. So has our populace, our political systems, our economy, our ideas about justice, the law, civic responsibility and so on. Clinging to a political concept because it is 200+ years old ultimately doesn't make a lot of sense.


There is no question in my mind whether I would leave my fate in the hands of our corrupt government or the good people that make up this country.
There ought to be.

1) A judge is not "the government."
2) You have (unsurprisingly) cited zero evidence that judges are more corruptible, or more difficult to unduly influence, than members of a jury.
3) The people are supposed to express their will through legislation and the checks and balances on the judiciary. If the government is passing laws the people do not want, that's a problem that juries cannot ultimately fix.
4) The "good people" of this country have made a lot of mistakes, and are not always "good."


Jury nullification has been mostly used against laws the people do not support or believe in. A lot of classic examples of jury nullification were actually used against slavery laws which the good people of this country refused to enforce.
Odd. To me, the classic examples are racist juries that let white defendants walk, when the victim was black.

Plus, there were a lot of "not good" people supporting slavery, segregation and racism in the South, and it required the intervention of the "corrupt" government to protect the rights of millions of citizens.


The law is not black and white otherwise evidence would not be necessary. In a country ruled by the people the people should have the final word in the determination of the law.
I did not say that the law is "black and white." What I said is that the laws in our country are written by representatives of the people, that the job of a jury is to weigh the facts and apply the law, and that jury nullification is a crappy defense against poor laws or a tyrannical government. Plus, times have changed dramatically since the 1790s. Nothing you've said stands as a viable refutation of those claims.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

The couple had lived in the retirement place for 9 years, and I'm guessing that they had no children. If the wife had written instructions, maybe this would be some sort of mitigation.

But the fact is that sometime Sunday he blew his wife's brains out, only informed the worker doing the daily morning check that she had died, leaving the worker to assume that she had died naturally from her terminal illness, and then took a 3-hour nap on the sofa.

Callous or confused or both? Who knows?

I don't know what Texas policy is on guns in nursing homes/assisted-living facilities, but I wonder about the choice of weapon. Why not a pillow?

What I do know is that he killed her but chose life for himself.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

It said they have no family, correct.

Hopefully that means no one is available to pay the $25000 bail.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

One of those changes? Few criminal cases are presented before a jury. Despite the impressions you may have from Law & Order and TV cops proclaiming "tell it to the jury,"over 95% of cases end in a plea bargain.

Plea bargain is the corruption that is destroying our judicial system. I don't watch law and order I have sat in a court room and had long talks with judges and prosecutors. I am well aware of the difference the 18 year old nephew of the chief of police gets in our court vs the average 18 year old black man with no money or political connections. One plea bargains down to mischievous mischief or charges dropped all together while the other goes to prison and becomes a felon. I have sat in court and watched lawyers dismiss hundreds of tickets because the officer was not present only to watch all the officers file in after lunch when those of us without a lawyer tried to fight our ticket. When I walked up to the judge he asked how I plead and I said innocent and requested an extension. He asked me why I needed an extension. I said to get one of the lawyers I saw this morning. He said that was a good idea. This goes on every day. I haven't had ticket since go on my record. I could go on for days on the corruption of our police and judicial system.

As for a fair trial I will take an uneducated jury with the power to determine if the law even applies over our corupt educated judicial system. That is unless I am guilty and have money as well as political connections.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

Plea bargain is the corruption that is destroying our judicial system....
That may be the case. However, the fact remains that most cases plea out. The percentage was hovering in the low 80s for years, and is now almost at 100%.

On that basis alone:
• It is unlikely this case will go before a jury.
• I see no reason to view juries, or jury nullification, as a major bulwark against corruption or tyranny or bad laws.
• The other problems with juries still exist.

And no, reciting "CORRUPTION" doesn't win you many arguments. All you're really doing is begging the question.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

Plea bargain is the corruption that is destroying our judicial system. I don't watch law and order I have sat in a court room and had long talks with judges and prosecutors. I am well aware of the difference the 18 year old nephew of the chief of police gets in our court vs the average 18 year old black man with no money or political connections. One plea bargains down to mischievous mischief or charges dropped all together while the other goes to prison and becomes a felon. I have sat in court and watched lawyers dismiss hundreds of tickets because the officer was not present only to watch all the officers file in after lunch when those of us without a lawyer tried to fight our ticket. When I walked up to the judge he asked how I plead and I said innocent and requested an extension. He asked me why I needed an extension. I said to get one of the lawyers I saw this morning. He said that was a good idea. This goes on every day. I haven't had ticket since go on my record. I could go on for days on the corruption of our police and judicial system.

As for a fair trial I will take an uneducated jury with the power to determine if the law even applies over our corupt educated judicial system. That is unless I am guilty and have money as well as political connections.

The plea bargain is our judicial system for well over 90% of all charges. A lawyer is essential to play that game successfully as they alone are going to be allowed to make and get a decent deal from the state. That deal usually involves admission of guilt but often to a lesser charge and with a guarantee of a "reasonable" sentence. Sometimes, if you lack serious prior convictions, you might even get a probation before judgement (PBJ) deal where nothing appears on your record if you manage to avoid committing any probation violations. Taking your chances against bucking a very rigged court system is not advisable even if you are 100% innocent. Whether that is seen as corrupt or not is not important, what matters is the reality of the situation.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

That may be the case. However, the fact remains that most cases plea out. The percentage was hovering in the low 80s for years, and is now almost at 100%.

On that basis alone:
• It is unlikely this case will go before a jury.
• I see no reason to view juries, or jury nullification, as a major bulwark against corruption or tyranny or bad laws.
• The other problems with juries still exist.

And no, reciting "CORRUPTION" doesn't win you many arguments. All you're really doing is begging the question.

Forcing innocent people to plead guilty to a lesser crime because of the corruption in our judicial system may be considered fair and just to you. I however will continue to argue for true justice determined by the people not a corupt judicial system.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

The plea bargain is our judicial system for well over 90% of all charges. A lawyer is essential to play that game successfully as they alone are going to be allowed to make and get a decent deal from the state. That deal usually involves admission of guilt but often to a lesser charge and with a guarantee of a "reasonable" sentence. Sometimes, if you lack serious prior convictions, you might even get a probation before judgement (PBJ) deal where nothing appears on your record if you manage to avoid committing any probation violations. Taking your chances against bucking a very rigged court system is not advisable even if you are 100% innocent. Whether that is seen as corrupt or not is not important, what matters is the reality of the situation.

I am well aware of the corruption of plea bargaining. I was charged with a crime when I was younger. They had an eyewitness identify me as the person. There was no question of my guilt. That was the first thing they did was offer me a reduced sentence to plead guilty. No one was concerned whether I was guilty or not. However I was lucky that day I was in another town replacing a customers boiler that evening at the time I supposedly committed this crime. Had I been home alone that evening I would be a criminal.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

I am well aware of the corruption of plea bargaining. I was charged with a crime when I was younger. They had an eyewitness identify me as the person. There was no question of my guilt. That was the first thing they did was offer me a reduced sentence to plead guilty. No one was concerned whether I was guilty or not. However I was lucky that day I was in another town replacing a customers boiler that evening at the time I supposedly committed this crime. Had I been home alone that evening I would be a criminal.
Uh, okay....

The thing is: The cops would have the same incentives to close the case as quickly as possible, with or without a jury trial. The grand jury would be a rubber stamp for whatever the prosecutor wants. Witness identification is usually unreliable, but juries fall for it. Juries also tend to listen to and trust police more than they do defendants. Legislators, egged on by the public, have pushed for harsh sentences and reduced *cough* judicial oversight, by requiring mandatory minimums.

I.e. If you didn't have an alibi, it's unlikely a jury would have saved you. And almost any attorney would have advised you to plead guilty.

Is this "corruption?" I don't think so. Rather, the public has pushed hard for long and punitive sentences, mandatory minimums, "three strikes" laws, and prosecutorial control. They're on the juries that are more likely than not to convict. No one paid off the cops in order to make you a suspect. You were at the mercy of the system as shaped by the "Good People" of the USA.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

No, not in every hospital.

Yeah they do. In any hospital where the patient is on a steadily increasing pain management program, death is accelerated by drug intake. This is a medical fact. Because the Hippocratic Oath requires doctors to alleviate pain and suffering, the drugs take priority over letting the disease play out to its bitter end.

My own grandmother suffered respiratory failure due to opiate overdose, not that any of us were complaining. She had suffered so long and hard that had euthanasia been available she surely would've gone for it.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

Yeah they do. In any hospital where the patient is on a steadily increasing pain management program, death is accelerated by drug intake. This is a medical fact. Because the Hippocratic Oath requires doctors to alleviate pain and suffering, the drugs take priority over letting the disease play out to its bitter end.

My own grandmother suffered respiratory failure due to opiate overdose, not that any of us were complaining. She had suffered so long and hard that had euthanasia been available she surely would've gone for it.

We don't know for sure, but that's how I suspect my dad died. My brother is a doctor and after it was over said he was fairly confident based on the morphine schedule they'd allowed at the end that he wouldn't live much longer, and he (and my mom) fully supported that schedule. When I left for a trip we though he had weeks left, but brother called me from out of town to leave immediately and try to get there before he died - I was an hour too late.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin

We don't know for sure, but that's how I suspect my dad died. My brother is a doctor and after it was over said he was fairly confident based on the morphine schedule they'd allowed at the end that he wouldn't live much longer, and he (and my mom) fully supported that schedule. When I left for a trip we though he had weeks left, but brother called me from out of town to leave immediately and try to get there before he died - I was an hour too late.

Thanks for sharing that. :)

When I say opiate overdose, there's obviously no post-mortem report that says my GM died of opiates. It says she died of multiple organ failure due to cancer. At that stage, there's really no distinction anyway.

I support deaths that are comfortable.
 
Re: Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her sufferin



Texas man shoots and kills wife of 60 years because he was ‘tired of her suffering’

He's being held in the county jail right now. Do you think he should be prosecuted for murder?

If she asked him to or was suffering a terminal disease that causes horrendous suffering, then no. He should be prosecuted for second degree murder/manslaughter or something lesser than murder.
 
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