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Fatal Miami Beach Police Shooting Is Caught on Grisly Video

JANFU said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/u...nd-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news


Thoughts are?
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In this video he is not a threat to anyone.

I question, with that many cops, a taser was even needed. He was not complying with police orders, but he behind a car, shirtless and holding a razor. The oly thing I can see is if they thought they saw [package they was a bomb and took him out.

But, since no bomb was found they are in deep ****.
 
Fearandloathing said:
In this video he is not a threat to anyone.

I question, with that many cops, a taser was even needed. He was not complying with police orders, but he behind a car, shirtless and holding a razor. The oly thing I can see is if they thought they saw [package they was a bomb and took him out.

But, since no bomb was found they are in deep ****.
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Officers are rarely convicted in the US
Juries hate to convict an Officer.
 
Fearandloathing said:
In this video he is not a threat to anyone.

I question, with that many cops, a taser was even needed. He was not complying with police orders, but he behind a car, shirtless and holding a razor. The oly thing I can see is if they thought they saw [package they was a bomb and took him out.

But, since no bomb was found they are in deep ****.
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Interesting article. Came across this when I was researching DP stats in the US
Fatal shootings by on-duty police officers: An analysis | The Washington Post

“To charge an officer in a fatal shooting, it takes something so egregious, so over the top that it cannot be explained in any rational way,” said Philip M. Stinson, a criminologist at Bowling Green who studies arrests of police. “It also has to be a case that prosecutors are willing to hang their reputation on.”

But even in these most extreme instances, the majority of the officers whose cases have been resolved have not been convicted, The Post analysis found.
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US Conservative said:
They had him in the street right now, he was already proven a flight risk. He had already run into a shop.

He does not need to be an immediate threat to be shot, thats not the legal burden.

Hypothetical-if they had attempted the taser, and it hadn't worked-would you have an issue with the shooting? Remember, he'd still be "not an immediate threat" per your comments.

Gotta go get sushi, will pick up when I return.
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Being an immediate threat pretty much IS the legal burden.

If the taser didn't work you go to a plan B but that doesn't mean that the next step has to be lethal. Frankly, situations like this is why I preferred the PR24.

If the guy lunged I have no problem with the shoot but he didn't.
 
Lutherf said:
I doubt this will lead to a prosecution but the shooter definitely need to find himself a desk job.
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I would bet it comes no where near that. Not even a GJ will be called.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, if he followed protocol, then no. No problem. HOWEVER! They should certainly adjust protocol to include announcing a taser. The guy didn't have to die.
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True, he didn't. He could of dropped his weapon and followed instructions.

When faced with cops.

Drop any weapon you may have.

Keep your hands in clear sight. Plainly announce any movement to the officer. Communicate your actions and intent.

Comply with officers instructions to the greatest extent possible.

If not possible, clearly and plainly communicate why you cannot.

Follow these simple steps and you will not get shot by a cop. Unless he just has murderous intent, of course.
 
DVSentinel said:
True, he didn't. He could of dropped his weapon and followed instructions.

When faced with cops.

Drop any weapon you may have.

Keep your hands in clear sight. Plainly announce any movement to the officer. Communicate your actions and intent.

Comply with officers instructions to the greatest extent possible.

If not possible, clearly and plainly communicate why you cannot.

Follow these simple steps and you will not get shot by a cop. Unless he just has murderous intent, of course.
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Sadly a significant number do. They enjoy murdering a man and getting away with it. Guarantee that cop in Chicago went out for drinks later that night.
 
Soho gator said:
Sadly a significant number do. They enjoy murdering a man and getting away with it. Guarantee that cop in Chicago went out for drinks later that night.
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What an idiotic statement. Your hate for Police is disgusting.
 
Soho gator said:
Sadly a significant number do. They enjoy murdering a man and getting away with it. Guarantee that cop in Chicago went out for drinks later that night.
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So, the person shot did as I said and was still shot?

Or do you just hate cops and think they are a bunch of barbarians running around looking to kill someone?
 
Lutherf said:
"Curly" wasn't going anywhere and the cops had him contained. Having some of the officers back off would have likely lead to a peaceful resolution once the suspect figured out it was over.
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That's pure speculation based on a 15 second video taken out of context in an ongoing situation.

Consider this:

A bank robber
Goes into a barber shop and
Arms himself. Then
Approaches a group of cops and
Fails to drop the weapon when so ordered.

If this wasn't suicide by cop, then it was death by stupid.
 
DVSentinel said:
So, the person shot did as I said and was still shot?

Or do you just hate cops and think they are a bunch of barbarians running around looking to kill someone?
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Then he complains about another's hatred.
It was plainly disgusting.
 
jimbo said:
That's pure speculation based on a 15 second video taken out of context in an ongoing situation.

Consider this:

A bank robber
Goes into a barber shop and
Arms himself. Then
Approaches a group of cops and
Fails to drop the weapon when so ordered.

If this wasn't suicide by cop, then it was death by stupid.
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Stupid, yes, did the Officer use deadly force before it was needed, yes.
 
JANFU said:
Stupid, yes, did the Officer use deadly force before it was needed, yes.
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Again, speculation based on 15 seconds of cell phone video taken by a bystander.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
With several police officers right there with guns drawn, if he escaped they should have all been fired for incompetence.

The police should have waited until the guy either finally surrendered or moved to attack someone. At the time of the shooting he was not moving to attack someone. The moment he does, then by all means shoot,

With several cops at the scene they should have been able to contain one man with a razor, unless they are incompetent of course
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Then write a letter to your Congressman & Senator requesting that they change the law. If I were in the cops shoes, I sure wouldn't wait for the lunge, as you suggest, because my first shot might be a misfire or might miss or strike an unintended target. It's pretty simple actually; if you have a weapon and refuse to drop it when ordered to do so by a cop pointing a gun at you, you can expect to be shot. It isn't rocket science.
 
jimbo said:
Again, speculation based on 15 seconds of cell phone video taken by a bystander.
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Oddly enough witnesses to fast moving events, of which this was not are considered credible. With this, we have the chance to review and review and on and on.
 
DVSentinel said:
So, the person shot did as I said and was still shot?

Or do you just hate cops and think they are a bunch of barbarians running around looking to kill someone?[/QUOT
Sadly some are. To be fair The majority are just dirty.
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dolphinocean said:
Well then I also disagree with such a draconian law against it's own citizens without due process.
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What is so difficult about not confronting the police with a weapon, and if you do, dropping it when they tell you to?

Anyone who can't comply with that is doing humanity a favor, because when they end up dead because of their stupidity, there will be one less moron in the gene pool.


.
 
Grim17 said:
What is so difficult about not confronting the police with a weapon, and if you do, dropping it when they tell you to?

Anyone who can't comply with that is doing humanity a favor, because when they end up dead because of their stupidity, there will be one less moron in the gene pool.


.
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I disagree. No point to go any further with you. Chow.
 
JANFU said:
Stupid, yes, did the Officer use deadly force before it was needed, yes.
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What is so difficult and/or unreasonable about people accepting that they a) can not confront police with a weapon and b) if they do end up in a confrontation with police and have a weapon in their hand, dropping that weapon immediately?

By following those simple rules, police shootings like this will almost completely vanish.
 
Grim17 said:
What is so difficult and/or unreasonable about people accepting that they a) can not confront police with a weapon and b) if they do end up in a confrontation with police and have a weapon in their hand, dropping that weapon immediately?

By following those simple rules, police shootings like this will almost completely vanish.
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Mental illness?
 
Lutherf said:
Being an immediate threat pretty much IS the legal burden.

If the taser didn't work you go to a plan B but that doesn't mean that the next step has to be lethal. Frankly, situations like this is why I preferred the PR24.

If the guy lunged I have no problem with the shoot but he didn't.
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This was in Florida right? Robbery is a forcible felony there. According to this, the officer can't be held criminally liable, but there is no civil protection. That said, I doubt a civil jury would punish him for shooting an armed robber who had already fled police. Also, the use of force is not allowed when fleeing, but this guy wasn't leaving. It was a legal shoot.

776.05 Law enforcement officers; use of force in making an arrest.—A law enforcement officer, or any person whom the officer has summoned or directed to assist him or her, need not retreat or desist from efforts to make a lawful arrest because of resistance or threatened resistance to the arrest. The officer is justified in the use of any force:
(1) Which he or she reasonably believes to be necessary to defend himself or herself or another from bodily harm while making the arrest;
(2) When necessarily committed in retaking felons who have escaped; or
(3) When necessarily committed in arresting felons fleeing from justice. However, this subsection shall not constitute a defense in any civil action for damages brought for the wrongful use of deadly force unless the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by such flight and, when feasible, some warning had been given, and:
(a) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon poses a threat of death or serious physical harm to the officer or others; or
(b) The officer reasonably believes that the fleeing felon has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm to another person.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1, ch. 75-64; s. 1, ch. 87-147; s. 54, ch. 88-381; s. 1191, ch. 97-102.
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine
 
Soho gator said:
Mental illness?
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What about it?

If someone is so mentally impaired that they can't grasp the concept of "don't confront police with a weapon in your hand" and/or don't have the ability to comprehend the words "put the weapon down", then they should either be under constant supervision, or confined to a hospital if they present a danger to themselves or others.

Mentally impaired or not, if a person confronts police brandishing a weapon, and for whatever reason does no comply when ordered multiple times to relinquish that weapon, the police should always have the right to use deadly force. Police officers risk their lives to protect the public and uphold the laws of our society every single day they put on their uniform, and it isn't fair to expect them to conduct themselves any other way.

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