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Fatal Miami Beach Police Shooting Is Caught on Grisly Video

Lord Tammerlain said:
There were several cops with weapons drawn and aimed at the guy, he was not lunging at anyone at the time of the shooting. He did not even make a sudden movement at the time of the shooting, that cop panicked and should not be a cop
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The guy apparently had robbed a bank, fled from police pursuit, and then not only refused to surrender, but was threatening them with a knife. These facts matter-you can't go purely by what you see on a video (which by definition omits context).

The cop appears calm, how much longer, in your (no doubt expert) view should they have waited?

Long enough for him to get away? Long enough to harm someone else or take a hostage?

This is why I say tuck in that emotion. Think about this.
 
US Conservative said:
The guy apparently had robbed a bank, fled from police pursuit, and then not only refused to surrender, but was threatening them with a knife. These facts matter-you can't go purely by what you see on a video (which by definition omits context).

The cop appears calm, how much longer, in your (no doubt expert) view should they have waited?

Long enough for him to get away? Long enough to harm someone else or take a hostage?

This is why I say tuck in that emotion. Think about this.
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With several police officers right there with guns drawn, if he escaped they should have all been fired for incompetence.

The police should have waited until the guy either finally surrendered or moved to attack someone. At the time of the shooting he was not moving to attack someone. The moment he does, then by all means shoot,

With several cops at the scene they should have been able to contain one man with a razor, unless they are incompetent of course
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
With several police officers right there with guns drawn, if he escaped they should have all been fired for incompetence.

The police should have waited until the guy either finally surrendered or moved to attack someone. At the time of the shooting he was not moving to attack someone. The moment he does, then by all means shoot,

With several cops at the scene they should have been able to contain one man with a razor, unless they are incompetent of course
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Thats not how it works. Learn the principles by which the world around you operates. It was a legal shoot, and the cops did nothing wrong.
 
We need gun confiscation from the cops.
 
US Conservative said:
Thats not how it works. Learn the principles by which the world around you operates. It was a legal shoot, and the cops did nothing wrong.
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Why was the female officer so close? She is about 10 feet away. If he was that dangerous, why so close?
 
MaggieD said:
If I had to guess, I'd bet the cop who fired was on extremely high alert...adrenalin surging...when the taser sounded its effect on that officer was like a starter pistol. Zap-BANG!
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The cop who pulled the trigger was the one with blue showing on his shoulder and holding the M-4. The cop behind the car is the one with the taser. It's likely that the shooter saw the flinch from the suspect getting hit and suddenly "feared for his life".

This was a case of too many cooks in the kitchen and was a bad shoot.
 
JANFU said:
Why was the female officer so close? She is about 10 feet away. If he was that dangerous, why so close?
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because she's a stupid twat escalating the situation?
 
US Conservative said:
The guy apparently had robbed a bank, fled from police pursuit, and then not only refused to surrender, but was threatening them with a knife. These facts matter-you can't go purely by what you see on a video (which by definition omits context).

The cop appears calm, how much longer, in your (no doubt expert) view should they have waited?

Long enough for him to get away? Long enough to harm someone else or take a hostage?

This is why I say tuck in that emotion. Think about this.
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"Curly" wasn't going anywhere and the cops had him contained. Having some of the officers back off would have likely lead to a peaceful resolution once the suspect figured out it was over.
 
Soho gator said:
because she's a stupid twat escalating the situation?
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That's unfair and sexist. She was the first to holster her weapon which indicates that she was also the LEAST emotionally invested in the situation.
 
JANFU said:
Why was the female officer so close? She is about 10 feet away. If he was that dangerous, why so close?
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Perhaps you are confused by the camera angle. She looks to be about the same distance away as the other cops. They appear to be in a semi circle so that they can protect themselves, cover the suspect, and not risk hitting each other with crossfire.

Theres a lesson here, dont rob banks. Dont resist arrest. Dont threaten people with razors.
 
Lutherf said:
The cop who pulled the trigger was the one with blue showing on his shoulder and holding the M-4. The cop behind the car is the one with the taser. It's likely that the shooter saw the flinch from the suspect getting hit and suddenly "feared for his life".

This was a case of too many cooks in the kitchen and was a bad shoot.
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What legal or department parameter do you feel makes this a bad shoot?
 
Lutherf said:
"Curly" wasn't going anywhere and the cops had him contained. Having some of the officers back off would have likely lead to a peaceful resolution once the suspect figured out it was over.
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He had already fled them once. He was armed, and he had run into a shop risking the lives of those inside.

How long should they have stood around, risking him escaping or harming others, before they ended the threat?
 
US Conservative said:
Perhaps you are confused by the camera angle. She looks to be about the same distance away as the other cops. They appear to be in a semi circle so that they can protect themselves, cover the suspect, and not risk hitting each other with crossfire.

Theres a lesson here, dont rob banks. Dont resist arrest. Dont threaten people with razors.
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Look at the officer to her right. Look at the parked car, then distance to the yellow line on the street. To me it is clear she was closer than any other officer.
Then a Taser is fired, and right after shots are fired.
To me they had the chance to use a Taser, then why shoot? Why not use non lethal as they did with the Taser.
 
US Conservative said:
He had already fled them once. He was armed, and he had run into a shop risking the lives of those inside.

How long should they have stood around, risking him escaping or harming others, before they ended the threat?
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They had him in the street and no civilians were at significant risk. The taser was appropriate because he wasn't complying. Shooting was inappropriate because although he was armed he was not an immediate threat to himself or others. Two or three cops in close proximity would have been fine to keep him contained providing they left a lane open for an overwatch to take a shot if necessary.
 
US Conservative said:
He had already fled them once. He was armed, and he had run into a shop risking the lives of those inside.

How long should they have stood around, risking him escaping or harming others, before they ended the threat?
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The area then was clear of civilians. If he began to run, then he was a hazard and a threat to peoples live. That would justify a shoot.
 
JANFU said:
Look at the officer to her right. Look at the parked car, then distance to the yellow line on the street. To me it is clear she was closer than any other officer.
Then a Taser is fired, and right after shots are fired.
To me they had the chance to use a Taser, then why shoot? Why not use non lethal as they did with the Taser.
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Do you know if they had already tried a taser? Tasers do fail, Ive seen it in person.

Is you issue primarily with the taser?
 
US Conservative said:
Do you know if they had already tried a taser? Tasers do fail, Ive seen it in person.

Is you issue primarily with the taser?
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As far as I can see, he was not a danger. He was contained. They fired right after the Taser. Why?
 
Lutherf said:
They had him in the street and no civilians were at significant risk. The taser was appropriate because he wasn't complying. Shooting was inappropriate because although he was armed he was not an immediate threat to himself or others. Two or three cops in close proximity would have been fine to keep him contained providing they left a lane open for an overwatch to take a shot if necessary.
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They had him in the street right now, he was already proven a flight risk. He had already run into a shop.

He does not need to be an immediate threat to be shot, thats not the legal burden.

Hypothetical-if they had attempted the taser, and it hadn't worked-would you have an issue with the shooting? Remember, he'd still be "not an immediate threat" per your comments.

Gotta go get sushi, will pick up when I return.
 
JANFU said:
The area then was clear of civilians. If he began to run, then he was a hazard and a threat to peoples live. That would justify a shoot.
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A bank robber with a razor, refusing to comply with police, who had already fled at least once isn't a threat?
 
US Conservative said:
They had him in the street right now, he was already proven a flight risk. He had already run into a shop.

He does not need to be an immediate threat to be shot, thats not the legal burden.

Hypothetical-if they had attempted the taser, and it hadn't worked-would you have an issue with the shooting? Remember, he'd still be "not an immediate threat" per your comments.

Gotta go get sushi, will pick up when I return.
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Fish should be cooked.
 
US Conservative said:
A bank robber with a razor, refusing to comply with police, who had already fled at least once isn't a threat?
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He was contained. All that was previous to his being contained, and Officers had a clear shot from various angles.
 
DVSentinel said:
Quite possible the cop that shot didn't know about someone else about to use a taser.

Personally, I have no problem with what the cops did.
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Well, if he followed protocol, then no. No problem. HOWEVER! They should certainly adjust protocol to include announcing a taser. The guy didn't have to die.
 
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