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Erdogan says would resign if Putin IS oil trade claims proven

treehouse said:
Erdogan says would resign if Putin IS oil trade claims proven

It is getting more interesting, NATO and Turkey challenge and speak by facts, but Russia makes accusations with no proof.
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It's interesting that Turkey never bothered to shoot down any of the many Russian attack aircraft flying so near its borders UNTIL those Russian aircraft took out all those tankers.

And even more interesting that Erdogan has declared a journalist persona non grata only after he wrote about the Erdogan family involvement in oil smuggling. :mrgreen:
 
OrphanSlug said:
I still think the most important question we can be asking right now is how ISIS is getting money for oil they have seized. Syria and Russia have been aligned for a long time now, it makes sense for them to be involved in dealing with any opposition to al-Assad.

To your point, I would agree that the last thing we need in the Middle East right now is another dictator overturned and in its place have some government so weak as to allow ISIS (or someone like ISIS) even more latitude to organize and operate.
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That's a pretty easy question to answer: ISIS has been financially successful because those planes that have been bombing Syria and creating refugees for more than a year now have NOT been bombing the oil revenue infrastructure.

Until, of course, the Russians began to destroy ISISUS.
 
joG said:
That is why the alliance should produce a fait accompli. It should save further embarrassment to all. Or do you really propose giving Assad back his people to do his thing on.
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I proposed no Western interference in Syria from the beginning. I've also been clear that the ME was better when Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad were in control. No need to repeat the same questions to me over and over.
 
Thoreau72 said:
That's a pretty easy question to answer: ISIS has been financially successful because those planes that have been bombing Syria and creating refugees for more than a year now have NOT been bombing the oil revenue infrastructure.

Until, of course, the Russians began to destroy ISISUS.
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You sure that really answers who is buying oil sourced from ISIS, or just answers who is doing the protecting?
 
OrphanSlug said:
You sure that really answers who is buying oil sourced from ISIS, or just answers who is doing the protecting?
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It's who's protecting at least. Without Turkish protection, no one would be buying Islamic State oil.
 
OrphanSlug said:
You sure that really answers who is buying oil sourced from ISIS, or just answers who is doing the protecting?
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It hardly matters. The point is that Turkey is facilitating stolen oil inbound and weapons back outbound. The point is that Turkey openly advocates dumping Assad and is willing to work towards that end, no matter the legalities or lack of them.
 
Montecresto said:
It's who's protecting at least. Without Turkish protection, no one would be buying Islamic State oil.
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I would agree that Turkey has some explaining to do, but from the nature of the OP article it appears that denial is the order of the day (even though we are talking about Russian accusation here, whom very few from the west trust anyway.)
 
OrphanSlug said:
This sort of thing was bound to happen.

ISIS is making money selling Oil to... someone. We have known for sometime now that Russian Oil interests pretty much demand that the price of Oil be at higher levels to sustain the break even points of the type of Oil typical to Russian mineral rights management. This places them in an adversarial position to many in the Middle East riding the wave of lower prices pretty much driven by Saudi Arabia and company. So it makes sense for Russia to be willing to target ISIS oil supplies irregardless of whom the buyer really is. Be it Turkey, someone else in the region, or some other international buyer.

Assuming for a moment that Turkey either buys that oil or has some financial benefit to it passing through their nation then I would get Turkey being upset about this perhaps going so far as to shoot down a Russian warplane. But it seems unlikely for Turkey to be willing to deal with ISIS given what this means to conditions right along their border, not to mention what the US wants in dealing with ISIS using Airbases inside of Turkey as launch points. We know America A-10s and F-16s are in Turkey right now, launching various attacks from that location.

A mess I would agree.

It seems to me the most important question we should be asking right now is in two parts.

One, who is buying oil from ISIS to the tune of $400 million + per year? Two, how and where is it getting to a point of being exported to those customers?

Assuming for a moment that ISIS is trucking oil to existing pipelines that happen to flow through Turkey, then we have a huge problem to contend with. One that if solved would end this conflict in short order as there is no other means for ISIS to make money other than through terrorism based operations. We could turn areas of Syria into acting like areas of Somalia overnight, forcing ISIS into having to effectively steal funds instead of stealing oil and selling that for funds. Consequently make them more predictable in their actions to obtain new funding.

**** it, that is just crazy talk. Lets go back to competition with Russia in bombing ISIS (and whoever else) for year on year with no real idea when or how this conflict will end. :roll:
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Common sense reveals that a convoy of 100 tanker trucks would be a mile long at a minimum. That would show up very clearly on satellite photos. The USA is doing aerial bombing in Syria and Iraq so it goes without saying that the USA has positioned reconnaisance (sp) satellites over both areas with exceptional photo capabilities of both terrains. Ergo, there is massive information on convoy movements in these Nations. The USA didn't bomb these convoys for a year. The satellite photos will show both loading destinations and unloading destinations clearly. The USA does not release this information. It must have something to hide. Would it hide the fact that all the OIL goes through Turkey? Would that be because the US wanted ISIS well funded to fight Assad, and that is why they didn't attack the convoys? Perhaps Turkey would not let the US use Incirlik airbase if we attacked the convoys? Irregardless, the USA knew about this OIL supply line for at least a year and did nothing about it. The Russians arrived, blew the bridges critical to the supply lines. Attacked the convoys. Went to the heart of the OIL funding for ISIS and so Turkey shoots down a Russian aircraft. This is not rocket science.
 
Thoreau72 said:
It hardly matters. The point is that Turkey is facilitating stolen oil inbound and weapons back outbound. The point is that Turkey openly advocates dumping Assad and is willing to work towards that end, no matter the legalities or lack of them.
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Why is that **** hole Turkey finding such support here? This makes no sense whatsoever. Patronizing is all this is. So many are ignoring the higher ground that Russia's on because of patronizing bull****.
 
DaveFagan said:
Common sense reveals that a convoy of 100 tanker trucks would be a mile long at a minimum. That would show up very clearly on satellite photos. The USA is doing aerial bombing in Syria and Iraq so it goes without saying that the USA has positioned reconnaisance (sp) satellites over both areas with exceptional photo capabilities of both terrains. Ergo, there is massive information on convoy movements in these Nations. The USA didn't bomb these convoys for a year. The satellite photos will show both loading destinations and unloading destinations clearly. The USA does not release this information. It must have something to hide. Would it hide the fact that all the OIL goes through Turkey? Would that be because the US wanted ISIS well funded to fight Assad, and that is why they didn't attack the convoys? Perhaps Turkey would not let the US use Incirlik airbase if we attacked the convoys? Irregardless, the USA knew about this OIL supply line for at least a year and did nothing about it. The Russians arrived, blew the bridges critical to the supply lines. Attacked the convoys. Went to the heart of the OIL funding for ISIS and so Turkey shoots down a Russian aircraft. This is not rocket science.
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Putin showed satellite and aerial photos of Islamic State supply lines, kilometers in length, to the G-20 and asked them, why aren't they being targeted. At the same time, he pointed out that 40 countries are financing the Islamic State.
 
Montecresto said:
Why is that **** hole Turkey finding such support here? This makes no sense whatsoever. Patronizing is all this is. So many are ignoring the higher ground that Russia's on because of patronizing bull****.
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There really IS a war on for your mind.

And for the most part, victory was achieved at least 14 years ago. They must demonize Russia because the masses love to hate somebody, it doesn't matter exactly who, and the hatred can be targeted at any number of public enemies, not just hadjis or Rooskies.
 
Montecresto said:
Putin showed satellite and aerial photos of Islamic State supply lines, kilometers in length, to the G-20 and asked them, why aren't they being targeted. At the same time, he pointed out that 40 countries are financing the Islamic State.
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Putin very clearly revealed the hypocrisy of the USA to the G20 without directly accusing us. The mind merge initiated with the Pentagon Narrative and the Mass Media was so successful in Ukraine that they think they can float and create support and belief for any lie. I think they can. I read posts on this forum by people who seem intelligent and then they will recite verbatum some nonsense repeated in the Mass Media and supplied by the Pentagon. Don't they know enough to look for information from investigative reporters with no partisan alliances? What it reveals is that they don't want to believe that the idealistic mental picture of their Nation is a fiction. The people of the Nation are warm, generous, and genuine, but the ruling oligarchy is a duplicitous amalgam of Corporate and Military Intelligence psychopaths.
 
Montecresto said:
I proposed no Western interference in Syria from the beginning. I've also been clear that the ME was better when Hussein, Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad were in control. No need to repeat the same questions to me over and over.
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In what respect better? It was easier for us, though.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I would agree that Turkey has some explaining to do, but from the nature of the OP article it appears that denial is the order of the day (even though we are talking about Russian accusation here, whom very few from the west trust anyway.)
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Always is the case. But how can it be denied that neither Russia nor the Islamic State would be in Syria if not for the interference of a couple Arab States and several Western States, determined to overthrow Russia's ally.
 
DaveFagan said:
Putin very clearly revealed the hypocrisy of the USA to the G20 without directly accusing us. The mind merge initiated with the Pentagon Narrative and the Mass Media was so successful in Ukraine that they think they can float and create support and belief for any lie. I think they can. I read posts on this forum by people who seem intelligent and then they will recite verbatum some nonsense repeated in the Mass Media and supplied by the Pentagon. Don't they know enough to look for information from investigative reporters with no partisan alliances? What it reveals is that they don't want to believe that the idealistic mental picture of their Nation is a fiction. The people of the Nation are warm, generous, and genuine, but the ruling oligarchy is a duplicitous amalgam of Corporate and Military Intelligence psychopaths.
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I agree with all of that and particularly the bolded, which is very dangerous as I'm sure you know.
 
joG said:
In what respect better? It was easier for us, though.
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Considering the state of affairs in the Middle East, that's a moot question.
 
Thoreau72 said:
There really IS a war on for your mind.

And for the most part, victory was achieved at least 14 years ago. They must demonize Russia because the masses love to hate somebody, it doesn't matter exactly who, and the hatred can be targeted at any number of public enemies, not just hadjis or Rooskies.
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Yep, AJ's right on that. Same thing Dave Fagan just pointed out.
 
Montecresto said:
Considering the state of affairs in the Middle East, that's a moot question.
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Not really. Change often will require a period of rather a worsening of most indicators with no other less horrid path available. That is par for the course.
 
joG said:
Not really. Change often will require a period of rather a worsening of most indicators with no other less horrid path available. That is par for the course.
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Nobody thinks the Middle East is in better shape today than it was 15 years ago, and there's less belief that the West is the answer to anything there. Even here at DP, some of the once ardent supporters of regime change in the Middle East are questioning its logic now. There will always be stragglers that will defend this nonsense to the end, whatever that nay be.
 
Montecresto said:
Nobody thinks the Middle East is in better shape today than it was 15 years ago, and there's less belief that the West is the answer to anything there. Even here at DP, some of the once ardent supporters of regime change in the Middle East are questioning its logic now. There will always be stragglers that will defend this nonsense to the end, whatever that nay be.
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There would have been a similar consensus in 1943 Europe. And it would have been as ignorant as it would be now and here.
 
Would love to see Erdogan resign. Guessing it wont happen though, even if Putin "proves" his claims.
 
joG said:
There would have been a similar consensus in 1943 Europe. And it would have been as ignorant as it would be now and here.
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Apples and oranges.
 
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