‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told offic

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Right wing terrorism is as big of a threat or an even bigger threat to America than Islamic terrorism is.

Cardinal said:

While Christian extremism has historically been the driving force behind the pro-life position, it's more accurate (and less unnecessarily divisive) to simply call it "pro-life terrorism."

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Since their pro-life beliefs come from the bible then the term Christian terrorist is apt.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

Not at all. I'm not saying that no pro-life people have displayed the kind of honesty to call this terrorism, but in the discussions I've followed CJ is thus far the only one to do so. Again, mostly what you get is silence or an oblique (or outright) defense of the terrorist's cause (which you're already witnessing repeatedly throughout this thread). Again, like the reaction that you see so often from Muslims sympathetic to Muslim terrorists' causes.

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Show me some examples of "outright defense" of the shooter's "cause".

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

Do you think that killing people and setting buildings on fire for one's pro-life position is extremism? Because that's actually what the topic is.

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Terrorism is not synonymous with "pro-life". What an utterly idiotic position.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

PoS said:

Right wing terrorism is as big of a threat or an even bigger threat to America than Islamic terrorism is.



Since their pro-life beliefs come from the bible then the term Christian terrorist is apt.

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Since not all Christians are pro-life then calling it Christian terrorism is too broad a brush.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

jet57 said:

I don't see it a problem with people saying Islamic terrorism. The problem is this or that religion is evil and no good. The shoe is once again on the other foot, so I guess we should be calling it Christian terrorism... Through human history Christians have wrought jihad on the populace through direct terrorism i order to gain control of said populace. This incident, like those before it, are no different, but just on a smaller scale. So, should we expect armed liberal to demonstrate and shout down parishioners at Churches? Consistency would demand that the right-wing support such a thing.

That guy being a bit crazy and ISIS being a lot crazy are two peas in pod wouldn't you say? I mean, logic would demand it.

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There is no logic in what you've said. There is no comparison between this lone crazy and ISIS. There is no evidence that Dear intended "Christian jihad."

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

jet57 said:

Uh no. we need to crack down on religiously motivated terrorism like we are in the Middle East. As for abortion, you are free to petition the government for a redress of your grievances.

This is a very black and white case of terrorism ala ISIS.

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How would you go about "cracking down" on "religiously motivated terrorism".

So far, all accounts are that this guy wasn't even religious. But never let a perfectly good crisis go to waste. :roll:

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

countryboy said:

Terrorism is not synonymous with "pro-life". What an utterly idiotic position.

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But if pro-life is taken to extreme levels and results in terrorism, then it is terrorism in the name of pro-life, ergo pro-life terrorism. This really is not a complicated concept. In fact, it's reading comprehension on the simplest level.

countryboy said:

Show me some examples of "outright defense" of the shooter's "cause".

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Since you seem unable to grasp how the pro-life position is capable of being extremist, I'm concerned you'll be unable to grasp any concept middlingly more complicated than that. However, when one points out that the people the terrorist was attacking were at least as bad as the terrorist act if not worse (which I've already seen repeatedly now), then that is a defense of the terrorists' cause. You see the same thing repeatedly demonstrated when attacks on Israeli citizens are met with responses such as "Well if the Israelis weren't occupying the land in the first place then the attacks wouldn't have been necessary." I.E. If the victim hadn't done the thing warranting the terrorism, then the terrorism wouldn't have been necessary. That is defending the cause of terrorism. That you are, to use Gardener's words, looking at this through the filter of your own ideology doesn't change this simple fact.

But again, as you are unable to grasp that the pro-life position is capable of resulting in extremism and therefore terrorism, I certainly wouldn't expect you to comprehend this.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

But if pro-life is taken to extreme levels and results in terrorism, then it is terrorism in the name of pro-life, ergo pro-life terrorism. This really is not a complicated concept. In fact, it's reading comprehension on the simplest level.



Since you seem unable to grasp how the pro-life position is capable of being extremist, I'm concerned you'll be unable to grasp any concept middlingly more complicated than that. However, when one points out that the people the terrorist was attacking were at least as bad as the terrorist act if not worse (which I've already seen repeatedly now), then that is a defense of the terrorists' cause. You see the same thing repeatedly demonstrated when attacks on Israeli citizens are met with responses such as "Well if the Israelis weren't occupying the land in the first place then the attacks wouldn't have been necessary." I.E. If the victim hadn't done the thing warranting the terrorism, then the terrorism wouldn't have been necessary. That is defending the cause of terrorism. That you are, to use Gardener's words, looking at this through the filter of your own ideology doesn't change this simple fact.

But again, as you are unable to grasp that the pro-life position is capable of resulting in extremism and therefore terrorism, I certainly wouldn't expect you to comprehend this.

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I think his objection is to advancing the notion that pro-life means "extremist" and "terrorist" but you're free to believe that if you wish. I know nobody will be able to convince you otherwise.

At the same time, I knew what certain people were hoping would be true about this guy and it continues to play itself out just as I predicted.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

But if pro-life is taken to extreme levels and results in terrorism, then it is terrorism in the name of pro-life, ergo pro-life terrorism. This really is not a complicated concept. In fact, it's reading comprehension on the simplest level.



Since you seem unable to grasp how the pro-life position is capable of being extremist, I'm concerned you'll be unable to grasp any concept middlingly more complicated than that. However, when one points out that the people the terrorist was attacking were at least as bad as the terrorist act if not worse (which I've already seen repeatedly now), then that is a defense of the terrorists' cause. You see the same thing repeatedly demonstrated when attacks on Israeli citizens are met with responses such as "Well if the Israelis weren't occupying the land in the first place then the attacks wouldn't have been necessary." I.E. If the victim hadn't done the thing warranting the terrorism, then the terrorism wouldn't have been necessary. That is defending the cause of terrorism. That you are, to use Gardener's words, looking at this through the filter of your own ideology doesn't change this simple fact.

But again, as you are unable to grasp that the pro-life position is capable of resulting in extremism and therefore terrorism, I certainly wouldn't expect you to comprehend this.

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A lib makes a claim, and yet again cannot even provide a single example. Is this what passes for intellectual honesty among leftists?

Thanks for confirming you made it up. Not that anything else was expected. :roll:

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

X Factor said:

I think his objection is to advancing the notion that pro-life means "extremist" and "terrorist" but you're free to believe that if you wish. I know nobody will be able to convince you otherwise.

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That's because his understanding of what I'm saying is very poor, and if you think that's what I've said then your understanding is quite poor too. I expected your reading comprehension to be at least a little better than Countryboy's, but sadly I overestimated you.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Gardener said:

There are very few people here, or anywhere else, who judge events without first filtering it through their chosen ideological label. There must be several dozen posters here who routinely spring into automatic defense mode when Muslims are involved just as there are those who spring into defense mode here. Just look at the reaction to the fort Hood shooting for a parallel.

It's more about protecting their turf than any real ideology involved, though. Instead of forming a notion as to what terrorism is and applying it to the specific situation, they simply minimize or maximize as it suits their agenda. if i't their tribe doing it, they minimize. If it's the other guys doing it, they maximize.

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The way I know this isn't terrorism is because all those that that immediately rush out and justify terrorism (because, you know, it's just so important to understand why it occurred and how it's actually the fault of people attacked) and advance why we don't want to antagonize or offend terrorists seem strangely silent now.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

countryboy said:

A lib makes a claim, and yet again cannot even provide a single example. Is this what passes for intellectual honesty among leftists?

Thanks for confirming you made it up. Not that anything else was expected. :roll:

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The thread is still quite young, which means that you only have thirty posts to pore through in order to find those that identify abortion as the primary problem, or at least equal to the terrorist act.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

That's because his understanding of what I'm saying is very poor, and if you think that's what I've said then your understanding is quite poor too. I expected your reading comprehension to be at least a little better than Countryboy's, but sadly I overestimated you.

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You realize there's a quote of you saying just that, right?

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

countryboy said:

You realize there's a quote of you saying just that, right?

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No there isn't. You just don't read too good.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

The thread is still quite young, which means that you only have thirty posts to pore through in order to find those that identify abortion as the primary problem, or at least equal to the terrorist act.

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Let's see some quotes. You made the claim some DPers were defending the actions of the shooter. Let's see the quotes. Post 'em up brah. But of course you can't, because you made that **** up.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

That's because his understanding of what I'm saying is very poor, and if you think that's what I've said then your understanding is quite poor too. I expected your reading comprehension to be at least a little better than Countryboy's, but sadly I overestimated you.

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If you're so capable of clear communication than tell me what I have wrong. Who do you fault and blame for what this guy did?

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

countryboy said:

Right, much better if we just ignore atrocities, as pointing them out might incite some crazy person to do violence. Much better to just pretend these horrible things aren't happening.

Will libs now tone down their rhetoric as well? No, of course not. With libs everything is a one way street. "Do as we say, not as we do, and like it". :roll:

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If you are of the opinion that an abortion is an "atrocity" then ...whatever. If you are referring to the doctored videos of PP that have pushed so many opposed to abortion into a cross eyed frenzy as simply "pointing out" something they believe is wrong then that might just be biggest understatement I've seen on this forum. These videos were designed for the specific purpose of inciting others. That's a far crying from simply pointing something out. All they've managed to do is shift the victims. If these folks are so deeply offended by the taking of innocent lives then they have an obligation to stop spouting this kind of violence inducing rhetoric. How deeply hypocritical of them and how tragically typical.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

X Factor said:

Do you believe pro-life = terrorist?

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Oh, heaven's no.

I believe terrorists are terrorist.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

X Factor said:

If you're so capable of clear communication than tell me what I have wrong. Who do you fault and blame for what this guy did?

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I blame pro-life extremism, and I blame those who share the belief of the pro-life position who are too cowardly to identify and unconditionally condemn terrorism stemming from any ideology, even their own, which results in an environment being more amenable to that terrorism taking place. I also blame rhetoric that incites extremist ideology, which you see absolutely all the time in the Middle East in which hateful rhetoric incites Islamic extremist behavior. What "unconditionally" means is condemning the terrorist without, in the same breath, justifying the target of the terrorism. Doing this completely dismantles the condemnation.

This should be completely unnecessary to say, but if there was a ubiquitous call for a conservative's death, a liberal killed that conservative, and the liberal quoted the very rhetoric that led to the conservative's death, then I would say unconditionally that the toxic rhetoric helped to shape the liberal's motives for carrying out the murder.

This should also be completely unnecessary to say, but there are obviously people who, again, only understand an issue through the lens of their own ideology. So I'll clarify that I am an environmentalist, but there are certain people who blow up factories and power stations (although I don't recall this happening in recent memory). We call these people "eco-terrorists." And yes, eco-terrorists who carry out such violent acts should be condemned outright without justification for their cause. You can see such justification demonstrated throughout the first three pages of this thread.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Gardener said:

Oh, heaven's no.

I believe terrorists are terrorist.

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I totally know that, G. I actually significantly edited my response to you (to a much better response, I think). Thanks for responding so directly to my question though.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Moderate Right said:

So? Nuts all over the country do violence based on life events all the time, every day. How about the Black Lives Matter movement inciting people for for all kinds of violence including the killing of innocent police officers? Should they be condemned, just as you wish to condemn the PP videos? You can't stop everything just because some extremist mentally deranged person might be incited to do something bad. What happened to the first amendment, or does that only apply to causes the left believes in?

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Yes, yes it does. Why do you think conservative speakers are shouted down by libs all the time.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

No there isn't. You just don't read too good.

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Nice try, but we have your own words.

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

Cardinal said:

I blame pro-life extremism, and I blame those who share the belief of the pro-life position who are too cowardly to identify and unconditionally condemn terrorism stemming from any ideology, even their own, which results in an environment being more amenable to that terrorism taking place. I also blame rhetoric that incites extremist ideology, which you see absolutely all the time in the Middle East in which hateful rhetoric incites Islamic extremist behavior. What "unconditionally" means is condemning the terrorist without, in the same breath, justifying the target of the terrorism. Doing this completely dismantles the condemnation.

This should be completely unnecessary to say, but if there was a ubiquitous call for a conservative's death, a liberal killed that conservative, and the liberal quoted the very rhetoric that led to the conservative's death, then I would say unconditionally that the toxic rhetoric helped to shape the liberal's motives for carrying out the murder.

This should also be completely unnecessary to say, but there are obviously people who, again, only understand an issue through the lens of their own ideology. So I'll clarify that I am an environmentalist, but there are certain people who blow up factories and power stations (although I don't recall this happening in recent memory). We call these people "eco-terrorists." And yes, eco-terrorists who carry out such violent acts should be condemned outright without justification for their cause, as you can see demonstrated throughout the first three pages of this thread.

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Condemn it like this?

X Factor said:

Very sorry to hear that 3 people died, including a police officer. This would be a capital murder here in Texas, subject to the death penalty. I hope the shooter is looking at something equally significant. Since it will inevitably come up, I am anti abortion and have very little regard for Planned Parenthood, but this should never happen and fwiw, I totally condemn it.

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What does that do for what your presumption about what all pro-lifers are about?

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

X Factor said:

The way I know this isn't terrorism is because all those that that immediately rush out and justify terrorism (because, you know, it's just so important to understand why it occurred and how it's actually the fault of people attacked) and advance why we don't want to antagonize or offend terrorists seem strangely silent now.

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So your response is sarcasm. Without emulating the poor logic of others, was Dear's act terrorism or not?

Re: ‘No more baby parts,’ suspect in attack at Colo. Planned Parenthood clinic told o

nota bene said:

There is no logic in what you've said. There is no comparison between this lone crazy and ISIS. There is no evidence that Dear intended "Christian jihad."

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There is every logic in it. This "lone crazy's" motives and those of ISIS are one and the same. The evidence is mounting that he indeed DID intend what I'm calling Christian jihad.

The Christian right is just going to have to get on board - once again - with the real world instead of just what they believe. This will be an interesting test of today's justice standards. The Weather Underground from a generation ago have been labeled terrorists, and as such that tag shall apply to Dear as well, just like it does to ISIS and the ME ramshackle.

When Christians have murdered doctors who perform abortions and enter clinics with guns to wantonly kill people over a Christian belief, religiously motivated terrorism is the only conclusion.