U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t want

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

If the people that wanted it did not research nor present what little research they had it could not have been implemented even if there were no other opposition at all.


"lack of requested research on if and how this is executed on other campuses. There had been suggestions made in committee meetings during the prior week on research and execution steps, but none were included in the version presented to Forum."

Zyphlin said:

Care to actually address the points I made, or just going to pointlessly respond dismissively while making a ****ty argument? The quote you just posted does not back up your assertion that it was "more" to do with logistics, it simply states that logistics was also an issue that was brought up. There were other things in the story, that my last post already pointed out, that suggest varying degrees of how impactful the logistics argument was. Your post was a one sided misrepresentation, similar to those trying to paint it as simply due to a fear of islamophobia. The primary difference between the two is your seeming attempt to act as if your misrepresentation is being done while you're standing on some kind of higher ground.

Some clearly voted against this measure in part, or primarily, due to a fear of it helping spur "islamophobia". Some clearly voted against the measure in part, or primarily, due to the logistical issues. There is absolutely nothing in the article indicating clearly which was the greater factor, nor were the votes tallied with any kind of official statement from each student as to what caused their vote to occur. So while it's wrong to act as if this was some official stance by the university that acknowledging 9/11 is "islamophobia" as the title seemed to originally wrongly contend, it is absolutely accurate to say that such a fear was part of what went into the decision making against this.

I can understand the logistical issues with this and do not disagree with the idea of opposition based on that. However, the argument that it should not occur because of the potential of islamophobia, which was a part of the discussion and the decision making process of at least some of the members, is absolutely ridiculous as a reason for opposing such a thing.

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Re: Remembering 9/11 is "Islamophobic" Says University of Minnesota

faithful_servant said:

Sorry, but those of you getting all butthurt over this one are the ones falling on the stupid side of the fence. Read the WHOLE article and then re-think your response. Don't just stop with the stuff that you don't like and then fly off the handle. Take the time to read the whole story and get all the facts. The school stated VERY clearly that this was an acceptable idea, just that there wasn't a clear path as to how it should be implemented. I think that the decision was spot on and gives me hope that there are young people who are thinking past what makes them feel good and are looking at the long term picture and making sure that a good thing doesn't get lost in bad implementation.

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Point taken. I did not read the entire article. Given 1) the cry-baby sniveling liberal PC lunacy sweeping the Nation/campuses. 2) and a state that would elect the likes of Ventura for Gov and the comedian Al Franken for the US Senate, I did jump to a conclusion.

Re: Remembering 9/11 is "Islamophobic" Says University of Minnesota

Shadowless said:

There is no such thing as islamophobia. It's a made up word to make some liberals feel they are protecting an ethnic minority. The anti-arab hatred people like Trump and many conservatives are stirring up is a serious problem, but all liberals should criticize Islam. It is a barbaric, backwards ideology. We like to make fun of evangelical christianity for its ridiculous and harmful belief system, but get offended when people make fun of another religious cult? That's ridiculous.

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More Conservative shell game-

First there is a HUGE difference between radical Islam and Islam, just like there is a HUGE difference between much of the extremist christian sects and mainstream Christianity. You make the difference when it comes to christianity but not when it comes to Islam- that is either bigotry or ignorance, or perhaps a bit of both, don't know you that well...

Trump doesn't say 'bad arabs' he says bad muslims, so you again play the Conservative shell game again.

Attack the radical warped use of Islam by the terrorists and I am with you, make it a blanket attack against all of Islam and you'll need to stop citing 'evangelical' christianity and just say Christians... eace

Re: Remembering 9/11 is "Islamophobic" Says University of Minnesota

notquiteright said:

More Conservative shell game-

First there is a HUGE difference between radical Islam and Islam, just like there is a HUGE difference between much of the extremist christian sects and mainstream Christianity. You make the difference when it comes to christianity but not when it comes to Islam- that is either bigotry or ignorance, or perhaps a bit of both, don't know you that well...

Trump doesn't say 'bad arabs' he says bad muslims, so you again play the Conservative shell game again.

Attack the radical warped use of Islam by the terrorists and I am with you, make it a blanket attack against all of Islam and you'll need to stop citing 'evangelical' christianity and just say Christians... eace

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Muhammad was a tribal leader/war-lord. Though he has been given credit for having an almost 'Geneva Convention' respect for opposing tribes which shared similar strict religious beliefs, he tortured, enslaved, murdered, beheaded, burned-alive the Jews, Christians, infidels, etc, etc. So strictly from a 'follow the example of the Prophet' POV' how can you say ISIS is not representative of Islam? Or is it a 'do as I say, not as I do' religion? (though there are dozens of references, giving the green light, to torture, enslaved, murder, behead, burn-alive etc etc the Jews, Christians, infidels.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

Montecresto said:

The thread title is a tad dubious. pointing out that something may be perceived as islamaphobic, isn't saying that something is islamaphobic.

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Who would perceive it as Islamophobic? Islamaphobia doesn't exist it is a hammer used to bash critics of a misogynistic, homophobic, theocratic, totalitarian, anti-Semitic, and violent ideology.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

mak2 said:

If the people that wanted it did not research nor present what little research they had it could not have been implemented even if there were no other opposition at all.

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Which is entirely irrelevant and a strawman. Whether or not the people who wanted it did enough research or presented it well is entirely irrelevant as to whether or not the article shows that its failure was "due more to logistics than any other issue".

Now care to actually address my actual point, and defend your actual statement, as opposed to trying to change the focus. The question wasn't whether or not they did a good job presenting their point or how it could be implemented. The question is how do you back up your claim from your first post.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

Zyphlin said:

Which is entirely irrelevant and a strawman. Whether or not the people who wanted it did enough research or presented it well is entirely irrelevant as to whether or not the article shows that its failure was "due more to logistics than any other issue".

Now care to actually address my actual point, and defend your actual statement, as opposed to trying to change the focus. The question wasn't whether or not they did a good job presenting their point or how it could be implemented. The question is how do you back up your claim from your first post.

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I provided the exact quote. If the research was not done or presented the project could not be implemented. In fact, i am wrong, it wasnt mostly due to logistics, it was completely due to logistics. Even with no opposition it could not have been done without research or planning.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

mak2 said:

I provided the exact quote.

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And you did so apparently failing to bother and read my first response to you, since I already explained why that quote doesn't show what you claim.

1. That quote makes ZERO claim as to which issue was "more" impactful than the other, it simply indicated that the issue of logistics was ALSO discussed along with the issue of potentially causing islamophobia.

2. That quote doesn't erase the fact that the article also provides testimony of individuals involved in the case that suggested that the islamophobia was "more" of the issue.

NOTHING you've presented or argued shows that "according to the article" the issue was more about logistics. The article clearly demonstrated that there were numerous issues that led to various individuals voting against the measure (logistics and fear of increasing islamophobia being two) and provided zero assertions that either instance was "more" the issue for the measures rejection. It is just as dishonest of a interpretation of the story as those trying to suggest it absolutely failed due to people fearing "islamophibia". What the article showed was that the reasons for it's failure were varied, with no clear indication as to what issue truly held the greatest sway on those that voted against it.

You were being dishonest when you claimed that "according to the article" the issue was logistics. What you're showing here is that ACCORDING TO YOUR OPINION, the issue was logistics. That is completely and utterly different than attempting to wrongfully claim that the article indicated such a case to be true.

Moving the goal posts, as you try to do yet again, doesn't change what your original claim was to the original point of the OP. Whether you believe that the resolution would've been successfully implemented if it was actually voted into effect is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT as to whether or not the reason it wasn't voted in was "more" to do with logistics than islamophobia.

You put forward the dishonest suggestion that the article itself claimed the resolution failure to pass had more to do with logistics than anything else. The article makes no such definitive claim what so ever.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

Zyphlin said:

And you did so apparently failing to bother and read my first response to you, since I already explained why that quote doesn't show what you claim.

1. That quote makes ZERO claim as to which issue was "more" impactful than the other, it simply indicated that the issue of logistics was ALSO discussed along with the issue of potentially causing islamophobia.

2. That quote doesn't erase the fact that the article also provides testimony of individuals involved in the case that suggested that the islamophobia was "more" of the issue.

NOTHING you've presented or argued shows that "according to the article" the issue was more about logistics. The article clearly demonstrated that there were numerous issues that led to various individuals voting against the measure (logistics and fear of increasing islamophobia being two) and provided zero assertions that either instance was "more" the issue for the measures rejection. It is just as dishonest of a interpretation of the story as those trying to suggest it absolutely failed due to people fearing "islamophibia". What the article showed was that the reasons for it's failure were varied, with no clear indication as to what issue truly held the greatest sway on those that voted against it.

You were being dishonest when you claimed that "according to the article" the issue was logistics. What you're showing here is that ACCORDING TO YOUR OPINION, the issue was logistics. That is completely and utterly different than attempting to wrongfully claim that the article indicated such a case to be true.

Moving the goal posts, as you try to do yet again, doesn't change what your original claim was to the original point of the OP. Whether you believe that the resolution would've been successfully implemented if it was actually voted into effect is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT as to whether or not the reason it wasn't voted in was "more" to do with logistics than islamophobia.

You put forward the dishonest suggestion that the article itself claimed the resolution failure to pass had more to do with logistics than anything else. The article makes no such definitive claim what so ever.

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If there was no way to implement it, opposition doesnt matter, there was no plan. If suddenly there was no opposition could they have implemented it without planning and research?

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

mak2 said:

If there was no way to implement it, opposition doesnt matter, there was no plan. If suddenly there was no opposition could they have implemented it without planning and research?

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Which is all irrelevant to your initial post and argument. All you're posting is a strawman, again and again.

Whether or not they COULD have implemented it is irrelevant. The question was whether or not the article indicated that opposition to this was more due to logistics as opposed to the fears of inflaming islamophobia. You claimed the article showed that it was; however, an actual objective reading of the article shows that it made no definitive case as to what was "more" the reason for the opposition, but rather indicated it was muddy at best as it presented evidence both ways on the matter.

It's really simple.

Did the article indicate that "it" (the student government voting down the measure) was due more to logistics than any other issue?

That was your claim. I'm asking you to back it up and address the MULTIPLE issues I pointed out with such a claim.

Your only defense was pointing at the statement of ONE of the three people quoted in the article, and even that statement made zero claims as to what was "more" the reason for the measure being voted down, but rather simply indicated that both issues were part of it.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

After a nationwide backlash, the university's administration has stepped in to override the Student Association.

" “MSA leaders have indicated their intent to reconsider this issue, but regardless of MSA’s next steps, the university will move forward with its plans to honor and remember the victims of 9/11,” administrators announced."

After nationwide backlash, 9/11 tribute reinstated at University of Minnesota - The College Fix

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

truthatallcost said:

After a nationwide backlash, the university's administration has stepped in to override the Student Association.

" “MSA leaders have indicated their intent to reconsider this issue, but regardless of MSA’s next steps, the university will move forward with its plans to honor and remember the victims of 9/11,” administrators announced."

After nationwide backlash, 9/11 tribute reinstated at University of Minnesota - The College Fix

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Sanity has won the day.

Re: U. Minnesota student government votes against annual 9/11 ceremony; some didn’t w

Roadvirus said:

Sanity has won the day.

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Sounds like the school administers got a heap of crap for this and finally wizened up. Sanity has won.