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Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border {W:164]

dani67

dani67

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Ankara (AFP) - NATO member Turkey on Tuesday shot down a Russian fighter jet on the Syrian border, threatening a major spike in tensions between two key protagonists in the four-year Syria civil war.

The Turkish presidency said in a statement that the plane was a Russian Su-24 fighter jet, while Turkish media said one pilot had been captured by rebel forces in Syria.

Moscow confirmed that one of its planes had been shot down, but said the pilots' fate remained unclear.

The Turkish army said that the plane had violated Turkish airspace 10 times within a five minute period and was shot down by two Turkish F-16s. However Russia insisted that the plane was inside Syrian airspace.

"A Russian Su-24 plane was downed under the rules of engagement because it violated the Turkish airspace despite the warnings," the Turkish presidency said.

Reports said two pilots had ejected from the plane and Turkish television pictures showed two white parachutes descending to the ground.

The CNN-Turk channel said Syrian Turkmen forces fighting the Russian-backed regime of President Bashar al-Assad captured one pilot.

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Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

it is not suprise.
turkey defending his basterd son(isis)
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

is russia will take revenge?
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

The facts concerning what happened will need to be established, as it is a serious incident. However, typically when planes stray in another country's territory--and it is uncertain whether that was the case with the Russian plane (differing claims exist)--they are escorted out, not shot down.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

dani67 said:
is russia will take revenge?
Click to expand...

It seems Russian bear disappointed mullahs and Assad tyrant.

Iran is in Syria, on daily basis there are mullah soldier coffins killed in Syria are burried in Iran, so Iran tries to keep dictator in power with the help of terrorist organisations and at the same time accuses others of what she does/practices in Syria.

Another mullah tries to do the same here.
 
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Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Turkey claims the Russian jet violated sovereign Turkish airspace. Russia claims it wasn't so. The plane was shot down over the Syrian-Turkish border, one pilot killed the other captured by Syrian rebels. There's a video showing the dead Russian pilot surrounded by rebels as well, probably too graphic to show though. The rebels will probably negotiate with Russia over the returning of the surviving Russian pilot and the body of the deceased one.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Apocalypse said:
Turkey claims the Russian jet violated sovereign Turkish airspace. Russia claims it wasn't so. The plane was shot down over the Syrian-Turkish border, one pilot killed the other captured by Syrian rebels. There's a video showing the dead Russian pilot surrounded by rebels as well, probably too graphic to show though. The rebels will probably negotiate with Russia over the returning of the surviving Russian pilot and the body of the deceased one.
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You're probably correct. There will probably be negotiations for the captured pilot.

Then, Russia will rain hell upon the Syrian Turkmen rebels. Turkey just gave Russia a free pass to do so.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Video: Syrian rebels shooting at one of the Russian pilots as he's making his way to the land. (Nothing graphic)

 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Apocalypse said:
Video: Syrian rebels shooting at one of the Russian pilots as he's making his way to the land. (Nothing graphic)

Click to expand...


I do not think so.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Russia was warned on the first or second day of its Syrian air campaign after Russian jets repeatedly violated Turkish airspace.

Ankara says Turkish F-16s warned the Russian jet to leave Turkey airspace numerous times. Both pilots ejected after the plane was struck.

Russian media says one pilot is dead and the other was captured on the Syrian side.

Putin is to make a statement today about the downing of the Russian SU-24. Odd, he didn't release a statement until three days after terrorism downed a Russian airliner over Sinai, Egypt last month.

CUkJAQ_UcAA2Dg1.jpg

Unconfirmed photo -- Russian SU-24 in flames and crashing

CUkYt9fWoAAnsmq.jpg

Unconfirmed photo -- Russian military helicopters search for missing pilots in northern Syria



Putin has been pushing the danger envelope for quite a while. For the past year Russian jets and bombers have been violating airspace (in Europe especially) resulting in scrambled jets meeting the challenge.

Russian military craft have also violated airspace with their data-transponders turned off which is an unacceptable hazard to civilian air traffic.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Apocalypse said:
Video: Syrian rebels shooting at one of the Russian pilots as he's making his way to the land. (Nothing graphic)

Click to expand...


If, in fact, they were shooting at the pilots who ejected, that is a war crime. It appears that they were. The BBC reported:

AP quotes Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast as saying the two Russian crew members had tried to parachute into a government-held area after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group.

Earlier, Reuters reported it had seen video from a rebel group that appeared to show one of the pilots immobile and badly wounded on the ground.

Article 42 of Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions is as follows:

Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft

1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

treehouse said:
I do not think so.
Click to expand...

It appears to be accurate.

Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast tells The Associated Press that the two Russian crew members tried to land in their parachutes in government-held areas after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group.

He adds that rebels shot one of the pilots, who landed dead on the ground on Tuesday.
Click to expand...

The Latest: NATO to Hold Emergency Meeting - ABC News

The Turkmen rebels just signed their own death warrant.

Sad.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Simpleχity;1065283614 said:
Putin is to make a statement today about the downing of the Russian SU-24. Odd, he didn't release a statement until three days after terrorism downed a Russian airliner over Sinai, Egypt last month.
Click to expand...

Given the situation, it's not odd at all. When the Russian airliner was shot down over Egypt, they had to wait to find out who the culprit was. This time, there is no doubt. In addition, Russia has been accused of violating Turkey's airspace, which requires a prompt reply.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

donsutherland1 said:
If, in fact, they were shooting at the pilots who ejected, that is a war crime. It appears that they were. The BBC reported:

AP quotes Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast as saying the two Russian crew members had tried to parachute into a government-held area after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group.

Earlier, Reuters reported it had seen video from a rebel group that appeared to show one of the pilots immobile and badly wounded on the ground.

Article 42 of Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions is as follows:

Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft

1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.
Click to expand...

I do not find any article that justifies Russian jet in foreign country bombing a local group in their own land.

The video shows that There are fires, but in the end Turkmens keep one soldier alive suggests that They want them alive, therefore did not target them to kill.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

donsutherland1 said:
If, in fact, they were shooting at the pilots who ejected, that is a war crime. It appears that they were. The BBC reported:

AP quotes Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast as saying the two Russian crew members had tried to parachute into a government-held area after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group.

Earlier, Reuters reported it had seen video from a rebel group that appeared to show one of the pilots immobile and badly wounded on the ground.

Article 42 of Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions is as follows:

Article 42 - Occupants of aircraft

1. No person parachuting from an aircraft in distress shall be made the object of attack during his descent.

2. Upon reaching the ground in territory controlled by an adverse Party, a person who has parachuted from an aircraft in distress shall be given an opportunity to surrender before being made the object of attack, unless it is apparent that he is engaging in a hostile act.
Click to expand...

As I've mentioned above I've seen the video that Reuters are referring to, and the pilot's heavy injuries seem to strongly imply that he was killed, probably by being shot at. The second video showing the rebels firing at the Russian pilot seem to indicate that this was the pilot that was killed. Yes, it's a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions. Frankly, I don't think they care much about that.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

This is why you don't play Chicken with Turkey.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

Apocalypse said:
As I've mentioned above I've seen the video that Reuters are referring to, and the pilot's heavy injuries seem to strongly imply that he was killed, probably by being shot at. The second video showing the rebels firing at the Russian pilot seem to indicate that this was the pilot that was killed. Yes, it's a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions. Frankly, I don't think they care much about that.
Click to expand...

He appears to have been moved a short distance from the impact site and yes his injuries are substantial. Really not something you would expect to see on someone who was in control of their parachute up to and including landing.

Thoughts are with the families of those involved. Horrific for them to have to deal with this. It's all over the internet, I hope they stay away, for their own sanity.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

treehouse said:
I do not find any article that justifies Russian jet in foreign country bombing a local group in their own land.

The video shows that There are fires, but in the end Turkmens keep one soldier alive suggests that They want them alive, therefore did not target them to kill.
Click to expand...

HowardBThiname said:
The Turkmen rebels just signed their own death warrant.

Sad.
Click to expand...

Confusing,

Who are called as "Turkmen?" The Turkish Turks or some Turks fighting with ISIS rebels?

The ones that shot the Russian jet are Turks with their jets. The ones that killed the Russian pilots are ISIS. Where do "Turkmen" fit in to the description of this event?
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

DDD said:
Confusing,

Who are called as "Turkmen?" The Turkish Turks or some Turks fighting with ISIS rebels?

The ones that shot the Russian jet are Turks with their jets. The ones that killed the Russian pilots are ISIS. Where do "Turkmen" fit in to the description of this event?
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmens
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

DDD said:
Confusing,

Who are called as "Turkmen?" The Turkish Turks or some Turks fighting with ISIS rebels?

The ones that shot the Russian jet are Turks with their jets. The ones that killed the Russian pilots are ISIS. Where do "Turkmen" fit in to the description of this event?
Click to expand...

Turkmens live there for 1000 years, and come from the same ethnicity.

The are is historical Turkmen area, and Russia primarily targets them, Russia claims She is in Syria against The Is but mainly targets Turkmens who are in fight against The IS from the very first day.

Do you think why?

I have explained all in another thread that i opened right after the shotdown:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...n-fighter-jet-over-turkish-syrian-border.html

Btw, Another Russian or Syrian helicopter(s) that tries to spot pilots may have been shot down.
 
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Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

treehouse said:
Radar track of downed jet , red line over the nose in blue, which is Turkish land:


CUkdnCuW4AAxX9L.png large.jpg


https://twitter.com/CNNTURK_ENG
Click to expand...

The missile fired at "HH036-180", which is pointed in pink on the right side of the nose.

The circle suggests that The Russian jets were bombing the area for a while, each time they violated Turkish land, and Turkish militarys says They had warned 10 times, which also implies how many times the Russian jets violated it.

Btw, Where The Russian jets were bombing are in the hands of Turkmens who are at the moment in fighting against The IS; so it seems Russia is pursuing a secret agenda, and sending a message to Turkey and NATO. Because If you take a closer look at Where Russia is continously bombing, you will see that it is not The IS positions but Turkmens' positions.

Russia claims she is in Syria to fight against The IS, however she primarily targets Turkmens who also fight against The IS in order to protect land and Turkmens living around.

Turkish state calls for UN security meeting to enligthen the situation, but nothing on Russian side yet.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

treehouse said:
Turkmens live there for 1000 years, and come from the same ethnicity.

The are is historical Turkmen area, and Russia primarily targets them, Russia claims She is in Syria against The Is but mainly targets Turkmens who are in fight against The IS from the very first day.

Do you think why?

I have explained all in another thread that i opened right after the shotdown:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...n-fighter-jet-over-turkish-syrian-border.html

Btw, Another Russian or Syrian helicopter(s) that tries to spot pilots may have been shot down.
Click to expand...

Russia is with Assad and against NATO, so while it would wish to attack Turkiye the only best "Turkish" ethnicity they have is the one unprotected from NATO which would be Turkmen in Syria.

The position stated from Howard in post 24 here:

The Syrian Turkmen Army is considered a terrorist group by Assad and Russia, because they're trying to overthrow Assad. But, for Turkey to step into the fray by shooting down a Russian fighter jet will only make things worse for the rebels and their families. At this point, if the Turkmen rebels value their families they will send them into Turkey, because the rebels, themselves, just painted a big red target on their group.
Click to expand...

Sums it up nicely.
 
Re: Turkey shoots down Russian war plane on Syria border

DDD said:
Confusing,

Who are called as "Turkmen?" The Turkish Turks or some Turks fighting with ISIS rebels?

The ones that shot the Russian jet are Turks with their jets. The ones that killed the Russian pilots are ISIS. Where do "Turkmen" fit in to the description of this event?
Click to expand...

It is confusing. The Syrian Turkmen Army is a rebel group fighting not necessarily WITH ISIS, but against Assad. The STA has been trained and funded by Turkey and Turkish forces. The Turkmen people, not the STA, are a wide group with varying ethnic ancestors, but all of them related to turkomens. The Turkmen live not only in Syria, but also in Turkey and other places in the Middle East and in Russia, too. They actually have a language called Turkman, which is slightly different from the Turkish language, but many are bilingual.

For this specific incident, however, it was the Turkish military (from Turkey) that shot down the jet. The pilots landed in Syria, which suggests Turkey might have pulled a fast one - or, maybe not - just a guess. Turkmen rebel groups that have been fighting in that specific region very heavily over the past few days capture, and perhaps killed one of the pilots.

In my opinion, the importance of this incident has less to do with the Turkmen rebels and more to do with Turkey shooting the jet down. If the Turkmen shot the pilot as he was landing - it might have been a war crime as some have said - but rebel factions are not charged with war crimes.

It will be interesting to see what Russia does - both to Turkey - and to the Turkmen rebels in Syria.
 
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