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Three suicide bombers were French citizens, according to government officials

le bouffon

le bouffon

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Three of the seven suicide bombers killed in the Paris attacks were French citizens, officials in France and Belgium have said.

Associated Press reports that one suicide attacker identified by a skin sample had been living in a Paris suburb.

A Belgian official said two of the seven suicide bombers were French men living in Brussels. Among the seven arrested in the Belgian capital is a French citizen, the official said.

The development will highlight growing fears of possible homegrown terrorism in France, a country that has exported more jihadis than any other in Europe.

Via the guardian.

Interesting details unfolding. Let's please keep this thread on topic, per what CaptainCourtesy said in the previous thread.
 
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Ugh... I'm dreading the domestic policy nightmare that's about to follow. Bye bye freedoms in France. Don't worry though, they'll find some way to justify a major military campaign over it.
 
le bouffon said:
Three of the seven suicide bombers killed in the Paris attacks were French citizens, officials in France and Belgium have said.

Associated Press reports that one suicide attacker identified by a skin sample had been living in a Paris suburb.

A Belgian official said two of the seven suicide bombers were French men living in Brussels. Among the seven arrested in the Belgian capital is a French citizen, the official said.

The development will highlight growing fears of possible homegrown terrorism in France, a country that has exported more jihadis than any other in Europe.

Interesting details unfolding. Let's please keep this thread on topic.
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One of them was a known petty criminal. Point being you can beat the crap out of ISIS but you can't stop a group of determined people from killing 10 50 100 1000 people if they really want to. This will play out until people on both sides get tired of it like they did in France circa 70's, Ireland and Sri Lanka.
 
Three of thousands.
 
Northern Light said:
Ugh... I'm dreading the domestic policy nightmare that's about to follow. Bye bye freedoms in France. Don't worry though, they'll find some way to justify a major military campaign over it.
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The problem with terrorism is that at its core it's a catch 22: You lose if you ignore it, and the world is always a worse place when you react to it.
 
Cardinal said:
The problem with terrorism is that at its core it's a catch 22: You lose if you ignore it, and the world is always a worse place when you react to it.
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It's not terrorism though. They are essentially soldiers. The only reason the semantic distinction exists is because we haven't declared war on any specific country, only non-state actors... but we are essentially in WWIII already with the level of military conflict we have created in the Mid East. We don't call them "wars" now, we call them "interventions", so that war conventions don't apply.

Although... I'll admit that in the case of Paris, it seems that most of the terrorists were domestic. I'm just saying that, in general, these attacks are the fruits of war and don't just happen in vacuo.
 
DOnt ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room. French Citizens. Committing murder in the name of Allah. Let that resonate for a bit. Its not 'just' Muslim extremists from the middle east. You have home grown fundamentalist extremists. And they have LOTS of friends.
 
Northern Light said:
It's not terrorism though. They are essentially soldiers. The only reason the semantic distinction exists is because we haven't declared war on any specific country, only non-state actors... but we are essentially in WWIII already with the level of military conflict we have created in the Mid East. We don't call them "wars" now, we call them "interventions", so that war conventions don't apply.

Although... I'll admit that in the case of Paris, it seems that most of the terrorists were domestic. I'm just saying that, in general, these attacks are the fruits of war and don't just happen in vacuo.
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The semantic distinction has no practical consideration, since you're still at square one: people are killing civilians and the government has to react in some way to protect those citizens. It's just that there's no kind of reaction that isn't inherently awful.
 
Soho gator said:
One of them was a known petty criminal. Point being you can beat the crap out of ISIS but you can't stop a group of determined people from killing 10 50 100 1000 people if they really want to. This will play out until people on both sides get tired of it like they did in France circa 70's, Ireland and Sri Lanka.
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This reminds me of a recent Buzzfeed article that mentioned whilst France has one of the best surveillance systems in the Europe, the merging of their two internal intelligence units might have caused more bureaucracy to compromise efficiency.
 
le bouffon said:
Three of the seven suicide bombers killed in the Paris attacks were French citizens, officials in France and Belgium have said.
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Not surprising at all.

France has a significant Muslim population (~11%). These are mainly the descendants of Algerian, Moroccan and Tunisian workers who came from France's ex-colonies in North Africa. Muslim communities/areas in France tend to be ghettoized (high-rise complexes that have been built far away from the city center to house African and Arab immigrants) with high unemployment.
 
Terrorism cannot be eliminated or stopped by armies and governments. We see this with the war on drugs and bad neighborhoods. Until the people, all of us unite against it, will it finally be eliminated. You can't run from it to another country or neighborhood. They are like predators chasing sheep. They will follow you to the ends of the earth and beyond. You have to fight them in every neighborhood by everyone. People need to report these nuts to authorities not support or protect them. 99% of the time somebody knew something before it happened. It is the people who look the other way, don't want to get involved, fear repercussions, and think someone else will do it for them that are the very reason they are as powerful as they are. If you want to end terrorism don't look for governments and someone else. Take a look in the mirror for there lies your savior.
 
le bouffon said:
Three of the seven suicide bombers killed in the Paris attacks were French citizens, officials in France and Belgium have said.

Associated Press reports that one suicide attacker identified by a skin sample had been living in a Paris suburb.

A Belgian official said two of the seven suicide bombers were French men living in Brussels. Among the seven arrested in the Belgian capital is a French citizen, the official said.

The development will highlight growing fears of possible homegrown terrorism in France, a country that has exported more jihadis than any other in Europe.

Via the guardian.

Interesting details unfolding. Let's please keep this thread on topic, per what CaptainCourtesy said in the previous thread.
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which is why old methods of fighting won't and don't work

they come here and if they can not adapt quickly to our culture they live in a nether world and are ripe for radicalizing

the sooner people "get" that, the better off we will be

they need help to fit in and become a part of the good life...fast

and even then there will always be those with mental issues upon whom the radicals will successfully prey
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
Terrorism cannot be eliminated or stopped by armies and governments. We see this with the war on drugs and bad neighborhoods. Until the people, all of us unite against it, will it finally be eliminated. You can't run from it to another country or neighborhood. They are like predators chasing sheep. They will follow you to the ends of the earth and beyond. You have to fight them in every neighborhood by everyone. People need to report these nuts to authorities not support or protect them. 99% of the time somebody knew something before it happened. It is the people who look the other way, don't want to get involved, fear repercussions, and think someone else will do it for them that are the very reason they are as powerful as they are. If you want to end terrorism don't look for governments and someone else. Take a look in the mirror for there lies your savior.
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Good post. I agree with almost all of it- I would just caution against hyper-vigilance.
We in North America might end up resigning ourselves to CC camera surveillance like they have in English and European cities, too. I've dreaded that but if it turns out to be a useful tool in this anti-terror effort, it'll probably become a fact of life here.
 
_Sal said:
which is why old methods of fighting won't and don't work

they come here and if they can not adapt quickly to our culture they live in a nether world and are ripe for radicalizing

the sooner people "get" that, the better off we will be

they need help to fit in and become a part of the good life...fast

and even then there will always be those with mental issues upon whom the radicals will successfully prey
Click to expand...

If the old methods of fighting won't work anymore, neither should the "us" vs "they" mentality . It only segregates people and assimilation cannot occur when divisive words are used. As France is becoming more multicultural over the decades, as countries like Germany and the UK move from colonial powers to large economies with more jobs and opportunities, the old "us" vs "them" class system needs to eradicate itself with time. Europe will no longer be white, or solely Christian, as in the past, as much of the right wing groups wish, but the arrival immigrants have an equal obligation to assimilate into their new country, learn the language, etc.

Just my opinion.
 
le bouffon said:
If the old methods of fighting won't work anymore, neither should the "us" vs "they" mentality . It only segregates people and assimilation cannot occur when divisive words are used. As France is becoming more multicultural over the decades, as countries like Germany and the UK move from colonial powers to large economies with more jobs and opportunities, the old "us" vs "them" class system needs to eradicate itself with time. Europe will no longer be white, or solely Christian, as in the past, as much of the right wing groups wish, but the arrival immigrants have an equal obligation to assimilate into their new country, learn the language, etc. Just my opinion.
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I agree.

They moved here for a reason, a better life. I think we need to make it super clear from the get go...this is the standard culture and here's how it works. The accept it or they do not get in.

You are welcome to bring the best parts of your culture along but we too have expectations. There will be no Sharia law EVER...etc. Males and females are equal no negotiating that.

Complete separation of church and state.

They need to blend into the culture enough that they would report radicalization attempts and look to their new countries as home.That takes a generation or two in some cases, in others it happens immediately.
 
Grand Mal said:
Good post. I agree with almost all of it- I would just caution against hyper-vigilance.
We in North America might end up resigning ourselves to CC camera surveillance like they have in English and European cities, too. I've dreaded that but if it turns out to be a useful tool in this anti-terror effort, it'll probably become a fact of life here.
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It was a political issue, hotly debated, and if I recall correctly until after the bus bombings in 05.
Myself, I want tough laws, where they are deported within months not years from Canada.
I do not give a **** if they were aged 1 when they arrived. Back you go.
Preach hatred, back you go.
No Imams from Saudi for starters, we are laying the base for future problems. No funding from Saudi - Iran- Pakistan - no where's outside of the country
We had a recent issue with Pakistan prior to the election. They would not accept 2 Pakistanis ordered deported. Well fine, stop all aid, stop all immigration, suspend all visas regardless of reason. Of course Justin will not go for that now.
 
VanceMack said:
DOnt ignore the 800 pound gorilla in the room. French Citizens. Committing murder in the name of Allah. Let that resonate for a bit. Its not 'just' Muslim extremists from the middle east. You have home grown fundamentalist extremists. And they have LOTS of friends.
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And Muslims from the US, UK, France, etc. have been trying to get to Syria to fight beside ISIS. Of course many can just stay home and murder their fellow citizens in the name of Allah within the convenience of the Metro.
 
Grant said:
And Muslims from the US, UK, France, etc. have been trying to get to Syria to fight beside ISIS. Of course many can just stay home and murder their fellow citizens in the name of Allah within the convenience of the Metro.
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But the training in Syria is more rigorous.
 
Cardinal said:
The problem with terrorism is that at its core it's a catch 22: You lose if you ignore it, and the world is always a worse place when you react to it.
Click to expand...
Of course the world will be a worse place until the threats are defeated but then a new threat will arise. War is a part of the human experience and as natural as peace and we just have to accept that. But to ignore evil is irresponsible and an eventually a larger threat than fighting it.
 
Grant said:
Of course the world will be a worse place until the threats are defeated but then a new threat will arise. War is a part of the human experience and as natural as peace and we just have to accept that. But to ignore evil is irresponsible and an eventually a larger threat than fighting it.
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As I said, you can't ignore it, and responses to terrorism invariably tend to be the demonization of entire peoples and losses of civil liberties. Lose lose.
 
Cardinal said:
As I said, you can't ignore it, and responses to terrorism invariably tend to be the demonization of entire peoples and losses of civil liberties. Lose lose.
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Reason the west should stay for the most part out of it. Let them sort themselves it out.
 
JANFU said:
Reason the west should stay for the most part out of it. Let them sort themselves it out.
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Staying out of it isn't practical. For one, we are just as much targets as France, and France is one of our closest allies.
 
Cardinal said:
As I said, you can't ignore it, and responses to terrorism invariably tend to be the demonization of entire peoples and losses of civil liberties. Lose lose.
Click to expand...
Screw the 'demonization of people' if they are out to kill you. Do you think they're concerned with your feelings?
 
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