Sanders vows to 'keep our promise' to vets

ReverendHellh0und said:

*shrug*

He's giving lip service to veterans, that's the title of this thread. I've shown him to be a recent convert to marijuana for recreation and yet, he's concentration on marijuana instead of veterans, given both things are allegedly on his mind?

doesn't fit your fallacy charge, kid.

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You didn't study the fallacy then. It's pretty painfully obvious.

ReverendHellh0und said:

So we still have one bill that has done nothing to help veterans, and you aren't going to show me all the other ones you claimed he was part of? IS that where we stand?


I think the bill would have still been laying around dying today had the scandal not broke, just as the one I linked is today.

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1. You haven't shown that it hasn't done anything.

2. You're very first post was "where is his veterans bill?" I pointed out one that he helped create and sponsored and that was praised by many veterans groups. Then you begin changing the topic and going in all kinds of different directions because your thread fell flat on it's face. I understand, it must be very frustrating.

3. I figure there's no point in digging up all the bills. You'll deny them and complain and refuse to change your mind. Here's a link that has every veterans bill that Bernie has ever sponsored (at bottom, with links to the full text of the bills). It's loaded full of bills that increase funds going to veterans programs, increasing funding for veteran care, mental health support, increase their pay etc. Mind you these aren't just bills that he's voted on. These are bills that he's sponsored.
Bernie's Veterans Bills - Vets For Bernie

Mr Person said:

How is Sanders proposition to "shred our Constitution"?

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We have a Constitutional Republic. Sanders is a Socialist. Polar opposites.

Mr Person said:

How is Sanders proposition to "shred our Constitution"?

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GunFora said:

We have a Constitutional Republic. Sanders is a Socialist. Polar opposites.

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Not only did you fail to back up your claim, you confirmed that you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about.

1. Sanders is a "Democratic Socialist."

2. Constitutional Republic is a form of government.

3. Socialism is an economic system.

4. The Constitution does not prohibit someone from believing in a socialist economic system from becoming President.

5. Sanders is not a "socialist"

You can have a socialist democracy, a quasi-socialist democracy (most of europe), a socialist totalitarian state (Soviet Russia), etc etc etc. Thank you for confirming once more that the louder sounds someone makes about "socialism," the less they tend to know what it means.

ReverendHellh0und said:

so.... begs the question if he is to be believed....

He found a way to introduce a bill on recreational marijuana at an opportune time in his campaign.... where is his veterans bill?


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Just another reason he won't be elected. Our government doesn't give a **** about our vets. They just need to keep the conveyor belt moving so they can get citizens to fight in their wars. But once a soldier is done fighting for them, the government couldn't care less about them.

roughdraft274 said:

You didn't study the fallacy then. It's pretty painfully obvious.




1. You haven't shown that it hasn't done anything.

2. You're very first post was "where is his veterans bill?" I pointed out one that he helped create and sponsored and that was praised by many veterans groups. Then you begin changing the topic and going in all kinds of different directions because your thread fell flat on it's face. I understand, it must be very frustrating.

3. I figure there's no point in digging up all the bills. You'll deny them and complain and refuse to change your mind. Here's a link that has every veterans bill that Bernie has ever sponsored (at bottom, with links to the full text of the bills). It's loaded full of bills that increase funds going to veterans programs, increasing funding for veteran care, mental health support, increase their pay etc. Mind you these aren't just bills that he's voted on. These are bills that he's sponsored.
Bernie's Veterans Bills - Vets For Bernie

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There ya go, was that all so difficult?

and even some dubious "vets for bernie site" sings praises for things that I can tell you have not been put into practice. most of those bills didn't make it past introduction.


but you were right he's intoduced a few bill dealing with veterans health issues but seemingly couldn't get many passed. effective legislating. :lol:


the one he did get passed, was that choice act.

It sucks and does nothing.


the marijuana law seems to be a simple one.


why doesn't he support unconditional healthcare for combat wounded vets at any place any time for almost any amount?

simple again.


that's what we need.


again thanks for showing me the bills., I am less unimpressed with sanders now on this issue if only slightly. for member of a committee on this, he hasn't been effective at all.

GunFora said:

We have a Constitutional Republic. Sanders is a Socialist. Polar opposites.

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He's a democratic socialist, meaning he believes strongly in a social safety net and caring for our citizens.

How is a social safety net "polar opposites" with a constitutional republic? Does our constitution say somewhere that we can't have social safety net programs or help our hungry eat or help our sick get care?

ReverendHellh0und said:

There ya go, was that all so difficult?

and even some dubious "vets for bernie site" sings praises for things that I can tell you have not been put into practice. most of those bills didn't make it past introduction.

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Move those goal posts, yay!

ReverendHellh0und said:

but you were right he's intoduced a few bill dealing with veterans health issues but seemingly couldn't get many passed. effective legislating. :lol:

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You think 70 equals a few? And look at how you're VERY predictably changing the topic. At first it was "He found a way to introduce a bill on recreational marijuana at an opportune time in his campaign.... where is his veterans bill?" and when you are provided with dozens and dozens of bills that he's sponsored, you're retort is "most of those bills didn't make it past introduction."

So lets follow this.
-You complain that he introduced a bill on weed but not to help veterans.
-It's pointed out that he helped create a recent bill that was praised by veterans groups and was widely considered the most comprehensive veterans legislation in decades and you come back with "it didn't do anything and it's only 1 bill!"
-You're given dozens of other bills and you retort with "most were only introduced!"

Look at that nimble sidestepping. You've looked silly at every exchange. I don't think you have any idea what you are really looking for here other than to complain. If you want to complain about politicians not doing enough for veterans, perhaps it would be wise to not start with the politician that has sponsored more veterans bills than any other in the last three decades.

ReverendHellh0und said:

again thanks for showing me the bills., I am less unimpressed with sanders now on this issue if only slightly. for member of a committee on this, he hasn't been effective at all.

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That's a nice opinion. Imagine what he could get done if the Republicans were actually cooperative and not constantly eager to cut veterans affairs funding.

Maybe next you should go after him for co-sponsoring the bill that will continue funding the healthcare of first responders to 9/11 for all of the respiratory problems they've had even though he's the only congressman currently running for president who has openly supported and sponsored it.
Supporters Still Waiting for Zadroga Act Renewal -- NYMag

Go get him champ. You can do it.

roughdraft274 said:

Move those goal posts, yay!



You think 70 equals a few? And look at how you're VERY predictably changing the topic. At first it was "He found a way to introduce a bill on recreational marijuana at an opportune time in his campaign.... where is his veterans bill?" and when you are provided with dozens and dozens of bills that he's sponsored, you're retort is "most of those bills didn't make it past introduction."

So lets follow this.
-You complain that he introduced a bill on weed but not to help veterans.
-It's pointed out that he helped create a recent bill that was praised by veterans groups and was widely considered the most comprehensive veterans legislation in decades and you come back with "it didn't do anything and it's only 1 bill!"
-You're given dozens of other bills and you retort with "most were only introduced!"

Look at that nimble sidestepping. You've looked silly at every exchange. I don't think you have any idea what you are really looking for here other than to complain. If you want to complain about politicians not doing enough for veterans, perhaps it would be wise to not start with the politician that has sponsored more veterans bills than any other in the last three decades.


That's a nice opinion. Imagine what he could get done if the Republicans were actually cooperative and not constantly eager to cut veterans affairs funding.

Maybe next you should go after him for co-sponsoring the bill that will continue funding the healthcare of first responders to 9/11 for all of the respiratory problems they've had even though he's the only congressman currently running for president who has openly supported and sponsored it.
Supporters Still Waiting for Zadroga Act Renewal -- NYMag

Go get him champ. You can do it.

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so uhm I point out you were right, continue the discussion on the evidence I had to painfully extract from you, and you think moving on is being "nimble"?

I point out the bill the one you would only talk about wasn't that effective, shown you evidence of it's failure and you ignore and continue cheerleading.

throw some insults for good measure and blame republicans, why not.


look kid, you can prostrate yourself before bernie all you want, I'm telling you as a veteran and one who works with disabled vets the **** he's passed has done pretty much nothing to help veterans, especially suicidal ones.

you keep cheerleading him, kid, I will call it like it is as I see it in the community I am a part of that these things were supposed to help.

ReverendHellh0und said:

so.... begs the question if he is to be believed....

He found a way to introduce a bill on recreational marijuana at an opportune time in his campaign.... where is his veterans bill?


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you asked the question "where is his veterans bill"

he introduced this legislation in February of 2014: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1982

maybe you don't like the bill, or maybe you don't think it has done a good job of achieving its stated purpose. either way, he obviously considers vets to be a higher priority than marijuana since he introduced this bill more than a year before the marijuana bill. I feel like you've moved the goal posts at least once in this thread.

bg85 said:

you asked the question "where is his veterans bill"

he introduced this legislation in February of 2014: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1982

maybe you don't like the bill, or maybe you don't think it has done a good job of achieving its stated purpose. either way, he obviously considers vets to be a higher priority than marijuana since he introduced this bill more than a year before the marijuana bill. I feel like you've moved the goal posts at least once in this thread.

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I see that, I know about that, it's inneffective, and done by committee.


he on his own introduced a marijiana bill.


meanwhile veterans are killing themselves and no one gives a ****.

ReverendHellh0und said:

I see that, I know about that, it's inneffective, and done by committee.


he on his own introduced a marijiana bill.


meanwhile veterans are killing themselves and no one gives a ****.

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okay so now you're just ranting. you asked the question "where is his veterans bill" and it was answered. that wasn't good enough for you which is okay, but at least admit that your original premise was faulty. he sponsored S. 1982. his record shows that he does care about veterans. the fact that you think the bill he introduced hasn't been effective or that he didn't write the bill all by himself is not evidence to the contrary.

bg85 said:

okay so now you're just ranting. you asked the question "where is his veterans bill" and it was answered. that wasn't good enough for you which is okay, but at least admit that your original premise was faulty. he sponsored S. 1982. his record shows that he does care about veterans. the fact that you think the bill he introduced hasn't been effective or that he didn't write the bill all by himself is not evidence to the contrary.

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read the ****ing thread, I acknowledged this. Am I not supposed to move on?


No the record shows he's willing to put forth anemic bills that don't actually help veterans so he can claim he "did something".


He did it through comittee.


in the meantime, he's ranting about coporations and veterans currently while concentrating on his new found support of recreational marijuana.

ReverendHellh0und said:

read the ****ing thread, I acknowledged this. Am I not supposed to move on?


No the record shows he's willing to put forth anemic bills that don't actually help veterans so he can claim he "did something".


He did it through comittee.


in the meantime, he's ranting about coporations and veterans currently while concentrating on his new found support of recreational marijuana.

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I have read the entire thread and I think you've moved the goalposts on your original question, which was faulty in the first place. I think at this point, you're just wildly ranting about bernie sanders and using any kind of reasoning you can possibly think of to justify your opinion that he doesn't care about veterans.

and what's with this "concentrating" on marijuana idea you keep bringing up? is he not capable of thinking about more than one issue per day?

bg85 said:

I have read the entire thread and I think you've moved the goalposts on your original question, which was faulty in the first place. I think at this point, you're just wildly ranting about bernie sanders and using any kind of reasoning you can possibly think of to justify your opinion that he doesn't care about veterans.

and what's with this "concentrating" on marijuana idea you keep bringing up? is he not capable of thinking about more than one issue per day?

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yeah, this isn't worth my time, kid.


I served, work with veterans groups, disabled veterans, and I can tell you your god has done little to actually help vets, feel free to ask one.

ReverendHellh0und said:

yeah, this isn't worth my time, kid.


I served, work with veterans groups, disabled veterans, and I can tell you your god has done little to actually help vets, feel free to ask one.

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HA I don't even support Bernie, son. I'm a jim webb supporter.

I don't care whether you served or spend 100 hours a week volunteering for veterans groups. that has absolutely no bearing on whether Bernie cares about vets or whether you've made a single valid point supporting the idea that he does not. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to tell me that. again, it is perfectly possible that his legislation was not effective, but to ignorantly ask where his veterans' bill is and then to move the goal posts when it's presented to you is sort of dishonest imo.

bg85 said:

HA I don't even support Bernie, son. I'm a jim webb supporter.

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right, you'll support whatever pile of coporatist **** the democrat party ruling class hands you, bro. Don't lie

I don't care whether you served or spend 100 hours a week volunteering for veterans groups. that has absolutely no bearing on whether Bernie cares about vets or whether you've made a single valid point supporting the idea that he does not. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to tell me that. again, it is perfectly possible that his legislation was not effective, but to ignorantly ask where his veterans' bill is and then to move the goal posts when it's presented to you is sort of dishonest imo.

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actually I don't care to continue our conversation, discussions with true believers who go out of thier way to call me dishonest even when recognizing the othersides proof tends not to be very productive. sorry, not sorry.

ReverendHellh0und said:

so uhm I point out you were right, continue the discussion on the evidence I had to painfully extract from you, and you think moving on is being "nimble"?

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Your original post has been torn to shreds. Say what you want. It's obvious what has happenned here. Every step along the way, every reason you give to bash Sanders has exploded in your face as if it read "ACME" in big bold letters on the side of it.

First he's terrible cause he won't introduce legislation.
Then he's terrible cause you don't like what was passed.
Then he's ineffective because not all of his bills have passed (as if he's king and can pass anything he wants :roll

It's laughable Rev. I understand that you're upset with the system, but I think it's stupid to act as though the big problem is the guy that's trying to fix the **** and not the people that have tried to block all attempts.

It's like your house is burning down and people are trying to stop the firefighters and you're yelling at the firefighters for not doing a good enough job while ignoring the angry mob that want's to let it burn.

ReverendHellh0und said:

right, you'll support whatever pile of coporatist **** the democrat party ruling class hands you, bro. Don't lie

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if jim webb runs as an independent (or even as a republican), i'll vote for him. if he doesn't, then yeah I will almost certainly vote for the democrats' candidate. lesser of two evils.

ReverendHellh0und said:

actually I don't care to continue our conversation,

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okay, then stop. sorry you have such delicate sensibilities. moving the goalposts is a dishonest tactic, even after you acknowledge it. you're not "moving on" as you say. you're just trying to make the same point and saying that what has been presented to you isn't good enough.

roughdraft274 said:

Your original post has been torn to shreds. Say what you want. It's obvious what has happenned here. Every step along the way, every reason you give to bash Sanders has exploded in your face as if it read "ACME" in big bold letters on the side of it.

First he's terrible cause he won't introduce legislation.
Then he's terrible cause you don't like what was passed.
Then he's ineffective because not all of his bills have passed (as if he's king and can pass anything he wants :roll

It's laughable Rev. I understand that you're upset with the system, but I think it's stupid to act as though the big problem is the guy that's trying to fix the **** and not the people that have tried to block all attempts.

It's like your house is burning down and people are trying to stop the firefighters and you're yelling at the firefighters for not doing a good enough job while ignoring the angry mob that want's to let it burn.

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it's more like the firefighters are showing up doing nothing, agreeing that fire is bad and letting one hose fight the fire while patting each others backs and telling the home owner all they've done for them


1. veteran suicide is at an all time high. there are veterans who have tried to kill themselves who have no coverage due to a bad conduct discharge for doing so.

2. No one, inlcuding bernie who is touting how much he is for veterans gives a ****.

3. the CHOICE act was all bluster and no meat.

Most veterans say new program offers no choice
Veterans Choice Act Fails To Ease Travel Burdens For Vets In Need Of Care : NPR
http://www.alaskapublic.org/2015/06/19/vets-lawmakers-irate-over-new-va-choice-program/
Outrage Follows Veterans Choice Card Farce Exposure

American legion says it's WORSE than before the act:
How will the Department of Veterans Affairs? new Veterans Choice Card work? | The American Legion

Third in command of the program says it's a failure:
http://www.ktuu.com/news/news/vas-3...ice-program-is-not-working-in-alaska/34921204


Meanwhile Bernie brags on his website:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/caring-for-our-veterans/

"As the former Chairman and a current member of the Senate Veterans’ Affairs Committee, one of Sen. Sanders’ highest priorities in Congress has been ensuring that our veterans receive the care and benefits they have earned.

Amid reports of unacceptable wait times at many VA medical facilities last year, Sen. Sanders spearheaded a bipartisan effort to pass the most comprehensive veterans’ legislation in decades. The landmark Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act increases accountability within the VA and ensures that all veterans have access to timely health care."


so you tell me how if the face of obvious failure, you have bernie bragging about passing this abortion of a bill, that he is not for himself, but for veterans? I mean really dude, lip service by this inept politician is par for the course.

bg85 said:

if jim webb runs as an independent (or even as a republican), i'll vote for him. if he doesn't, then yeah I will almost certainly vote for the democrats' candidate. lesser of two evils.

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meanwhile I'll keep my integrity and not vote for the corporatist schill spoon fed to us by a two party as one party corrupt system.

voting for the "lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil, bro.

if more people had integrity and said "enough" we wouldn't be in the position we are in today.

ReverendHellh0und said:

meanwhile I'll keep my integrity and not vote for the corporatist schill spoon fed to us by a two party as one party corrupt system.

voting for the "lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil, bro.

if more people had integrity and said "enough" we wouldn't be in the position we are in today.

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sounds good, bro. you do whatever you have to do to feel okay with yourself. your position is perfectly valid, as is mine. if you can convince me there's someone else I should vote for then i'll vote for them instead.

bg85 said:

sounds good, bro. you do whatever you have to do to feel okay with yourself. your position is perfectly valid, as is mine. if you can convince me there's someone else I should vote for then i'll vote for them instead.

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Not really, your position is that of a servant to the corporatist ruling class, you help with your very vote, this status quo,

ReverendHellh0und said:

Not really, your position is that of a servant to the corporatist ruling class, you help with your very vote, this status quo,

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as far as I can tell, the status quo is responsible for the amazing standard of living we have in this country. the status quo, while it could be improved upon, is really not so bad.

Mr Person said:

Not only did you fail to back up your claim, you confirmed that you haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about.

1. Sanders is a "Democratic Socialist."

2. Constitutional Republic is a form of government.

3. Socialism is an economic system.

4. The Constitution does not prohibit someone from believing in a socialist economic system from becoming President.

5. Sanders is not a "socialist"

You can have a socialist democracy, a quasi-socialist democracy (most of europe), a socialist totalitarian state (Soviet Russia), etc etc etc. Thank you for confirming once more that the louder sounds someone makes about "socialism," the less they tend to know what it means.

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For God's Sake man....Socialism is a social-economic form of government. Ok - Sanders is a "democratic socialist"? Ok...let's play - What kind of socialist is he? C'mon....I know you know the answer.

ReverendHellh0und said:

3. the CHOICE act was all bluster and no meat.

Most veterans say new program offers no choice
Veterans Choice Act Fails To Ease Travel Burdens For Vets In Need Of Care : NPR
http://www.alaskapublic.org/2015/06/19/vets-lawmakers-irate-over-new-va-choice-program/
Outrage Follows Veterans Choice Card Farce Exposure

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Don't have time to do a full reply, but what stands out to me the most is that every link i clicked on talked about how insane it is that they are measuring 40 miles "as the crow flies" and not in terms of driving distance. That has since been changed.

This program by no means makes everything perfect, but it was a good change and a great idea, even if it does need to be greatly expanded.