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Tesla unveils Model X electric car with Falcon Wing doors

You said 400 MILES PER GALLON, not 400 miles per tank.
a simple typo.

And nobody here has said that Tesla's current models are mass market for the everyday consumer. Literally no one in this thread has said that. What I said is it takes time for any new technology to come down from the high end market to the consumer market, just like the computer. If you want to refute that, by all means, do.

Tesla isn't coming down any time soon no matter what musk says. the supposed 4th gen car is to cost about 35k but we will wait and see.
not only that if it isn't big enough to fit my family in (and it doesn't look that way) I have no reason to buy it.

the model X might work but I don't have 120k dollars to buy it.
musk is appealing to the small portion of the market instead of the large portion.

which is fine it is his business.
 
I believe mankind should always be pushing the technological envelope, we should always be trying to improve life and better our understanding. I love innovation and companies that dare to be bold and change the world. I loathe people on the internet who just whine and cry that emerging technologies aren't immediately perfect and profitable. They're short sighted and add no value. Why attack the innovators when the incumbents aren't innovating at all?

I love innovation as well...but not if it is ridiculously expensive and unsustainable fiscally.

And as I added above, Porsche just showed off a luxo EV show car. Tesla has NEVER made a profit (apparently) even though they have a complete monopoly on luxo Ev's during one of the largest stock market booms in recent history.

Imo, if they lose that monopoly, barring another government bailout, they are toast.

Innovation is wonderful, but if it is totally unsustainable and the masses cannot afford it...what is the point?

Anyway, this is going no where. You want to love Tesla Motors Inc...go ahead. Until they post a profit or start making a sub-50K car...they do not impress me.

And no offense, but ramming your ideals down everyone's throats and insulting everyone who does not agree with you ('short sighted', 'I loathe people') does not further your cause.

And one final thing....LIGHTEN' UP man. We are talking about a company, not hunger or war or curing cancer. Jeez man.

We are done here for now.
 
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a simple typo.

Tesla isn't coming down any time soon no matter what musk says. the supposed 4th gen car is to cost about 35k but we will wait and see.
not only that if it isn't big enough to fit my family in (and it doesn't look that way) I have no reason to buy it.

the model X might work but I don't have 120k dollars to buy it.
musk is appealing to the small portion of the market instead of the large portion.

which is fine it is his business.

Let's imagine for a second you actually understood the benefits of electric cars, and you set out to start a new American car company from the ground up, the first in almost 100 years. Can you explain to me how you would go from 0 to mass market car with profits instantly and without any time to build the infrastructure and do the R&D to get there? Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was any car company in the world. You need economies of scale, and for that you need infrastructure. I'd like to hear how you'd circumvent that.

I love innovation as well...but not if it is ridiculously expensive and unsustainable fiscally.

And as I added above, Porsche just showed off a luxo EV show car. Tesla has NEVER made a profit (apparently) even though they have a complete monopoly on luxo Ev's during one of the largest stock market booms in recent history.

Imo, if they lose that monopoly, barring another government bailout, they are toast.

Innovation is wonderful...but if it is totally unsustainable and the masses cannot afford it...what is the point?

I already explained that they're not making profits on paper because they're reinvesting the profits. What's difficult to understand about that? It took Henry Ford ages before his company was profitable and able to pump out affordable cars. It started as a niche market, just like Tesla's. Can you explain to me how you'd make a car company from 0 to cheap mass market car without any time to build up your infrastructure? Lay it on me, I'd love to hear it.

Also, I've pointed out more than once that they paid back the government loan with interest, and now have private venture capitalists to include Google.
 
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There are hundreds of stations with thousands of superchargers, and the network is growing. They are powered partially be reusable energy, and they are improving. There are 7 on Ohio highways alone.

I've already explained that even without renewables, it's still dramatically more efficient to run an electric car off a huge power plant than it is to run thousands of little combustion power plants on wheels. The fact however is that we're going to continue switching to renewables. I still have no idea what your beef is or why you have to come in and slam emerging technology. Do you think we'll never run out of fossil fuels?

Provide the math. I'm not slamming emerging technology, I'm pointing out the obvious. The current approach doesn't pan out, from a perspective of efficiency or environmental improvement.

As of today, the only feasible alternative to fossil fuels is nuclear. I expect that by the time we run out of fossil fuels, Ahmed the clock-maker will have finished working on cold-fusion.
 
Theyre going to make a lower cost car? Not sure I agree with that.

I see tesla cars as premium products for the most part. If they delve into the blue collar cars business, then it could hurt their reputation.
 
Let's imagine for a second you actually understood the benefits of electric cars, and you set out to start a new American car company from the ground up, the first in almost 100 years. Can you explain to me how you would go from 0 to mass market car with profits instantly and without any time to build the infrastructure and do the R&D to get there? Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was any car company in the world. You need economies of scale, and for that you need infrastructure. I'd like to hear how you'd circumvent that.



I already explained that they're not making profits on paper because they're reinvesting the profits. What's difficult to understand about that? It took Henry Ford ages before his company was profitable and able to pump out affordable cars. It started as a niche market, just like Tesla's. Can you explain to me how you'd make a car company from 0 to cheap mass market car without any time to build up your infrastructure? Lay it on me, I'd love to hear it.

Also, I've pointed out more than once that they paid back the government loan with interest, and now have private venture capitalists to include Google.

Any idiot can start and run a company from a $465 million dollar government loan and not make any profit for 12 years..ANYONE. The skill is to do it on your own (without government assistance) and to actually make money within at least 5 years.
As for now to do it...it totally depends on the market you are in.


Now, you have already insulted me twice over this nonsense. I have better things to do then to be a source for your venting over this silly little subject. Do you argue with people if they do not pass the salt correctly?

Lighten up man...jeeez.

Good day.
 
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'Silicon Valley electric car-maker Tesla has launched its third model to date - a sports-utility vehicle distinguished by its double-hinged "falcon wing" rear doors, which unfurl themselves upwards to help parents put their children inside.
The Model X was unveiled nearly two years later than originally scheduled.
The firm's chief executive Elon Musk acknowledged that the "difficulty in engineering" some of the parts involved had been greater than he had originally expected.
The car can fit seven people and can travel about 250 miles (400km) on a single charge.
However, analysts say its price - which runs as high as $144,000 (£95,100) - is expected to temper demand. Tesla has said it plans to unveil a lower-cost vehicle in 2017.
The company has yet to make a profit.
The BBC's North America technology reporter Dave Lee was at the launch event in Fremont, California.'


Tesla unveils Model X electric car with Falcon Wing doors - BBC News

It's probably fantastic, wonderful...and costs WAAAAY too much for most people to ever afford.

Thoughts?

Several thoughts:

1. The company is still not profitable. To achieve profitability, it will need to increase its margins. That means staying focused on the high-end market.

2. Once the company is profitable, then its challenge will begin to shift toward the mass market. It have profits that it can plow into the effort and will have gained some experience/learning benefits from its earlier production.

3. If it can successfully make the transition, then it could have the potential to develop economies of scale. Such economies would facilitate its effort to create a cost structure that is compatible with selling to the mass market.

Big risks:

1. Near-term: Ability to achieve profitability
2. Transition from a high-end focus to a mass market one.
3. Threat of substitute technologies e.g., progress related to hydrogen vehicles.
4. Entrant of existing auto manufacturers into this market with similar technology

Overall, Tesla's evolution will require time. There are big opportunities if it is successful. There are also likely to be challenges along the way, some of which could be significant e.g., the threat of substitutes. There are never guarantees for new ventures or young companies, so we'll have to see how this works out. So far, the company has made progress and has access to resources.
 
Neat vehicle and woo for the Delorian style gull-wing doors on it. That said, while I do enjoy what Tesla's doing and the way they innovate, I'm not overly interested in their vehicles until Possibly the Model 3 is launched and gets a few years into it's cycle. $35,000 starting, dropping to closer to $20k or less for used models a few years after, is far more in my price range that interests me.

Electric cars always cost more than people want to pay. Their maintenance seems to be much less though, excluding the battery. But to reduce co2 is going to cost something in terms of life style nd this will be only a part of it. But hey! Is it so bad to drive a Smart electric instead of a Jetta and a Tessla instead of a Mercedes or Porsche?

Well, as a relatively new owner of an Electric Car...that's just not true.

Now for me, the cost of a NEW electric car was FAR more than I would've been willing to pay for one. However, when it came to a used vehicle, it was not.

I've recently purchased a 2013 Nissan Leaf. I'd recognize at the start that the car isn't for everyone. When I first came upon it myself, I didn't think it was for me. It showed up in my searches repeatedly as the only vehicle at various dealerships that was in my price range and contained a number of convenience features I wanted. So then I started to look at my typical driving patterns and realized an 80 mile charge would actually work perfectly fine for me. Then I test drove the thing and found myself pleasantly surprised by how smooth the ride was and that it wasn't any less, if not a bit more, powerful than my wife's old civic. Then I began researching the cost to charge it and compared that to the costs of what I normally spent on gas and oil changes (and what I'd spend roughly looking at the next closest car I was likely to buy). By the end I was shocked, but happy, to be walking out with a Leaf.

For me, it works wonderfully...and that's despite finding out that the 240 volt plug in my garage that I *THOUGHT* I had was actually miswired by the old home owners and is attached to a 120 v breaker. Still, I plug it in when I get home most nights and unplug when I leave. Or I can go a few days without plugging it in and hook up at work, though that's a bit more expensive. So far it's seemed to have increased my energy bills about $30-$40 a month. Considering in my old Taurus I was putting in about $20 in gas a week at least, it's been nice.

For me, the electric car thing wasn't about the environment, it was about financials and comfort. I got some neat features like a 360 camera (nice for my horrible parallel parking self), heated leather seats, nav system, integrated garage door opener, Bluetooth, automatic LED Lights, XM, digital speedometer (I like seeing the specific number), etc along with the lower usage costs. And at the front end, I wasn't paying a premium. Why?

For the same reason I'm interested in the Model 3 a few years after it's out. EV's currently are being sold new with a pretty hefty hike to their cost as it relates to a comparable non-ev vehicle. However, it seems...at least in the DC area...that the depreciation of the EV initially is much higher, until it reaches a point where it sort of levels out with a comparable vehicle.

So say you have two vehicles, an EV and a non-EV. The new EV is $30,000 and the new non-EV is $20,000. Lets say after two years, the EV has lost $15,000 of it's value while the non-EV has only lost $5k. Now they're both priced at around $15,000, and at that point they start to depreciate at a more even level.

That seems to be the trend that I saw as I began looking at leafs. So I ended up getting a 2013 leaf, with under 10,000 miles on it, for about the same price I would've gotten a comparable non-EV that wouldn't have a number of the same features and had about 20 to 30 thousand more miles on it.

So long story short....they don't always cost more than people want to pay ;)
 
I believe mankind should always be pushing the technological envelope, we should always be trying to improve life and better our understanding. I love innovation and companies that dare to be bold and change the world. I loathe people on the internet who just whine and cry that emerging technologies aren't immediately perfect and profitable. They're short sighted and add no value. Why attack the innovators when the incumbents aren't innovating at all?

1) Name a car company startup that was immediately profitable. You can't take software and tech companies and compare them directly with car hardware companies. It takes dozens of factories with robots and streamlined processes to get a car cheap enough for the mass market. I seriously can not believe that you can't wrap your head around that.

2) My initial statement about your foresight is dead on. You're like the shortsighted naysayers of the 80's, throwing their hands up in there and saying "PFFT, computers are too expensive to ever be in every home." You can feel free to wait until you turn happy about it, but I'll continue to call you out on it when you make these threads.



You said 400 MILES PER GALLON, not 400 miles per tank.

And nobody here has said that Tesla's current models are mass market for the everyday consumer. Literally no one in this thread has said that. What I said is it takes time for any new technology to come down from the high end market to the consumer market, just like the computer. If you want to refute that, by all means, do.



There are hundreds of stations with thousands of superchargers, and the network is growing. They are powered partially be reusable energy, and they are improving. There are 7 on Ohio highways alone.

I've already explained that even without renewables, it's still dramatically more efficient to run an electric car off a huge power plant than it is to run thousands of little combustion power plants on wheels. The fact however is that we're going to continue switching to renewables. I still have no idea what your beef is or why you have to come in and slam emerging technology. Do you think we'll never run out of fossil fuels?



It blows my mind that people whine and mock Tesla that it's not immediately profitable, when they're the only company that redirects any large amount of their profits into innovation. The other major car companies have been repackaging the same designs for decades and pocketing billions upon billions of dollars in profit for their CEOs, but we're going to cry about the one company actually innovating? Mind blowing.



That's what they said about computers in the 80's. Silly little toys. Do you think electric cars will never, ever in human history get cheaper than they are now? Why not examine the technology for its potential merits instead of lazily dismissing it?

Electric cars have been around for decades and Photovoltaic cells have been around longer than that.

Bad tech is bad tech. Computers grew because they were truly innovative. They didn't need threats of global apocalypse via AGW from the Government to get investors and consumers interested.
 
(I HATE government tax dollars subsidizing ANY private company).

I don't. Government subsidizing private companies can lead to great things, although I'd generally prefer it if the private companies in question didn't spend all its time making toys for the rich. That being said, the proactive push Tesla is making for putting ev's in the public eye and in the market could have massive benefits for the entire country down the road.
 
I don't. Government subsidizing private companies can lead to great things, although I'd generally prefer it if the private companies in question didn't spend all its time making toys for the rich. That being said, the proactive push Tesla is making for putting ev's in the public eye and in the market could have massive benefits for the entire country down the road.

Agreed. But let me know when they make something that can pull a trailer, is 4x4, can run at interstate speed, and get me out of the mud. And costs the same as a Toyota Tacoma. Till then...Tacoma. But that's the bench mark lol.
 
Agreed. But let me know when they make something that can pull a trailer, is 4x4, can run at interstate speed, and get me out of the mud. And costs the same as a Toyota Tacoma. Till then...Tacoma. But that's the bench mark lol.

What's important is that...

a) battery technology is moving forward, despite previous claims I've seen here that the chemical charge in batteries has hit a wall. A Better Anode Design to Improve Lithium-Ion Batteries

b) Elon Musk single-handedly achieved something that nobody else could: he made electric vehicles cool, whereas everybody else was content to design them so as to guarantee that the driver could never get laid. I've seen other ev's change in design over the past few years so that they don't look half shabby, and I absolutely credit Tesla for this.
 
What's important is that...

a) battery technology is moving forward, despite previous claims I've seen here that the chemical charge in batteries has hit a wall. A Better Anode Design to Improve Lithium-Ion Batteries

b) Elon Musk single-handedly achieved something that nobody else could: he made electric vehicles cool, whereas everybody else was content to design them so as to guarantee that the driver could never get laid. I've seen other ev's change in design over the past few years so that they don't look half shabby, and I absolutely credit Tesla for this.

Oh please. NO one else with a low interest 450 million dollar loan and 4.9 Billion in Governemt subsidies over 12 years could do what he did ?

Hey, maybe someone else would have figured out how to turn a profit by now.

And as far as Cars go the Tesla isn't cool.

A 1971 Dodge Challenger RS is cool. A 1976 Corvette Stingray is Cool. A 1971 Chevelle SS is cool.

Not the Tesla which is basically a luxury golf cart
 
Oh please. NO one else with a low interest 450 million dollar loan and 4.9 Billion in Governemt subsidies over 12 years could do what he did ?

Hey, maybe someone else would have figured out how to turn a profit by now.

And as far as Cars go the Tesla isn't cool.

A 1971 Dodge Challenger RS is cool. A 1976 Corvette Stingray is Cool. A 1971 Chevelle SS is cool.

Not the Tesla which is basically a luxury golf cart

Your opinion is noted, though not especially interesting or even relevant.
 
Your opinion is noted, though not especially interesting or even relevant.

And Tesla still has yet to turn a profit.

I'm not the only one with that opinion apparently.
 
And Tesla still has yet to turn a profit.

I'm not the only one with that opinion apparently.

I've stated what's important to me, and you've stated what's important to you. I'm not sure what else you expect from me.
 
Let's imagine for a second you actually understood the benefits of electric cars, and you set out to start a new American car company from the ground up, the first in almost 100 years. Can you explain to me how you would go from 0 to mass market car with profits instantly and without any time to build the infrastructure and do the R&D to get there? Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was any car company in the world. You need economies of scale, and for that you need infrastructure. I'd like to hear how you'd circumvent that.

I understand the benefits of electric cars so your ad hominem is a failure. I actually like tesla, but I think they went about it the wrong way.
The infrastructure already exists. unless you are dealing with space age material and doing everything in house most of the parts etc can be designed outside
by 3rd party vendors.

Musk chose the most expensive route and developed everything in house.
instead of relying on already established manufacturing that is out there.


even their 3rd gen (not 4th gen) is 40k. they are still 20k over priced for the normal market.
some have it priced at 35k but that is still 10k to much almost.
 
Let me ask a question....is profit the only measure of success in this country?
 
What's important is that...

a) battery technology is moving forward, despite previous claims I've seen here that the chemical charge in batteries has hit a wall. A Better Anode Design to Improve Lithium-Ion Batteries

b) Elon Musk single-handedly achieved something that nobody else could: he made electric vehicles cool, whereas everybody else was content to design them so as to guarantee that the driver could never get laid. I've seen other ev's change in design over the past few years so that they don't look half shabby, and I absolutely credit Tesla for this.

That's important. But a long term goal is important too. The long term goal should be a functional vehicle for people whose requirements won't be filled by any current or near future gen EVs. I actually use my pickup. A lot of guys I know do. For the most part I drive around town and an EV would fill the need. But when I go hunting or vacationing it's out.
 
Let me ask a question....is profit the only measure of success in this country?

Unfortunately, YES is the answer.

I admit it is of prime concern in a capitalist venture, but still....
 
Unfortunately, YES is the answer.

I admit it is of prime concern in a capitalist venture, but still....

So if we want true innovation, we have to wait for it to come from non profit organizations, like NASA?




You know, if it weren't for the Tucker car company, who KNOWS were automobiles would be today? 4 wheel disk breaks, directional headlights (which are just NOW becoming standard for many automobiles), at the time, unheard of reliability, etc.

I could go ON and ON about the innovations and implementations of the Tucker cars. Yeah, not a successful company. But a DAMN successful innovator of the automotive industry.


Isn't that worth something to us all? Had Tucker been allowed to stay in business, instead of being frozen out by the established companies (and their unions), who knows HOW far ahead US automakers would be? Instead, we all look to Mercedes to be our primary innovator now.

And here, we have a new (ish) company threatening to try to do the same thing again, and what is the response?

"Well, they haven't made a lot of money off of us yet, so I don't like them..."


As if there weren't a clear political agenda behind that, lol.
 
Tesla is a great poster child for the modern green movement. It would be great if it did everything it claimed and people could afford it.
 
How are Teslas recharged ? With Unicorn fairy dust ?

A bit misleading to say that Teslas or any electric cars are " zero "emmison.

And Tesla the best car ever made ?? Lol !!!
Hyperbole, propaganda and nonsense.

I've driven one. Its essentially a luxury golf cart but its better than a Nissan GTR ? Nope. A Lexus LFA ? Nope.

A Ferrari California ? Nope. A BWM M3 ? Nope. A Pagani Zonda ? Nope. A Mercedes SLK ? Nope. A Porsche 911 Turbo ? Nope. A Ferrari 458 Italia ? Nope.

1971 Dodge Challenger 440 + 6 ?? Nope. A 1968 Camarro SS ? Nope. A 1971 Chevelle ? Nope. A 1955 Chevy 2 door Bellaire ? Nope.

A 1956 Chevy Nomad ? Nope. A1957 Chrysler Fury ? Nope.

It's faster than all of them though :)
 
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