White House launches plan to counter explosion in heroin use

Glen Contrarian said:

Which is why nations like Portugal, where most such drugs have been legalized, those nations have turned into vast wastelands of drug dens? Oh, wait - they haven't! Wonder why....

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Here's to policy decisons based on clumsy and simplistic comparisons.

Lets legalizing hard drugs with zero due dilligence. We're exactly like Portugal so it should work out fine.

Lol...wow.

I think some drugs are okay others maybe not, you know.

I think drugs are fine if it doesn't have any real negative effect.

I've never done drugs, never will. But I think maybe we should legalize some drugs, I don't know. It depends a lot on the effects the drugs have IMO.

ballantine said:

That's only because the drugs are illegal. Duh?



That's only because society forces that choice on the addict, by making his drugs illegal.



You're a goddamn idiot if you're sending your kid to jail for drugs.

You're not helping your addict child by sending them to jail. Get them some help for God's sake, and stop screwing up their lives. They're already screwed up, they don't need your help.



Your own ignorance is front and center with comments like this.

I'm from the street, pal. I've been addicted to every drug there is. I know what I'm talking about. You don't.

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Yea sure, legality makes addiction and all its devastating effects magically go away...

Wow, ridiculous.

And family members don't " send their kids to jail "....also ridiculous

I personally would like to raise my family in a safe and productive Society.

But according to you, the right of a addict to fry his brain supercedes my right to live in a Society not inundated with stoned addicts.

IntelligentMan said:

I've never done drugs, never will.

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Ha ha - LOL at comments like this.

Do you drink? Then you've done drugs.

Do you take aspirin or Tylenol? Then you've done drugs.

Ever smoke a cigarette? Then you've done drugs.

LOL - you can not exist in this world without taking drugs. They're even in the water you're drinking.

"Never done drugs, never will". LOL

ballantine said:

Ha ha - LOL at comments like this.

Do you drink? Then you've done drugs.

Do you take aspirin or Tylenol? Then you've done drugs.

Ever smoke a cigarette? Then you've done drugs.

LOL - you can not exist in this world without taking drugs. They're even in the water you're drinking.

"Never done drugs, never will". LOL

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It's pretty obvious by 'drugs' I meant like marijuana, cocaine, etc.

I wasn't born yesterday.

Fenton said:

Yea sure, legality makes addiction and all its devastating effects magically go away...

Wow, ridiculous.

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No, it makes the criminal part of the equation go away.

The rest is still there, and "the rest" is not something the law can deal with.

And family members don't " send their kids to jail "....also ridiculous

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Family members do send their kids to jail. It happens every day.

I personally would like to raise my family in a safe and productive Society.

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So would I. One free from the ideological chains imposed by the ignorant fearmongers.

But according to you, the right of a addict to fry his brain supercedes my right to live in a Society not inundated with stoned addicts.

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You do not have a "right to live in a society". There is no such right. If you think there is, show me where it is in the Constitution.

You can't escape by moving away from the darkies either.... or maybe that part hasn't registered on you yet?

Nah pal, you can not "legislate" this world to be the way you want it to be. Any such effort is doomed to failure before it even starts.

You need to be wise about this stuff, not act impulsively out of fear and ignorance.

Addiction is first and foremost a medical problem, and then after the medical part's been taken care of there's usually little psychology in the mix. Prison has never fixed anyone. The only addicts who emerge "clean" from prison are those who've found religion or those who've found AA (or NA). The rest of 'em, the very first thing they're gonna do when they get out, is party.

Drugs do not change the person. That is a fundamental truth, and only the truly ignorant would claim otherwise.

If you think drugs have "changed" your kids, then you don't know your kids.

Sorry, but that's the truth. I'm real sorry if it hurts, I know how difficult these things can be. But it is not right for you to project your pain onto the addict. The addict is not the source of your pain, you are the source of your pain. Leave the poor addict alone, he's got enough problems. If you want to help him, then take him to an AA meeting or an NA meeting.

YES, addicts have rights. They're people just like you and me. EXACTLY like you and me. If you think you're any different from an addict or an alcoholic you're just deluding yourself.

Fenton said:

Here's to policy decisons based on clumsy and simplistic comparisons.

Lets legalizing hard drugs with zero due dilligence. We're exactly like Portugal so it should work out fine.

Lol...wow.

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Here's to refusal to consider such policy decisions! If it works in another nation, that means it CAN'T work here. If it doesn't work it another nation, that means it MUST work here...so whatever other nations do, we MUST NOT EVEN CONSIDER doing it here...'cause 'Murica!

ballantine said:

No, it makes the criminal part of the equation go away.

The rest is still there, and "the rest" is not something the law can deal with.



Family members do send their kids to jail. It happens every day.



So would I. One free from the ideological chains imposed by the ignorant fearmongers.



You do not have a "right to live in a society". There is no such right. If you think there is, show me where it is in the Constitution.

You can't escape by moving away from the darkies either.... or maybe that part hasn't registered on you yet?

Nah pal, you can not "legislate" this world to be the way you want it to be. Any such effort is doomed to failure before it even starts.

You need to be wise about this stuff, not act impulsively out of fear and ignorance.

Addiction is first and foremost a medical problem, and then after the medical part's been taken care of there's usually little psychology in the mix. Prison has never fixed anyone. The only addicts who emerge "clean" from prison are those who've found religion or those who've found AA (or NA). The rest of 'em, the very first thing they're gonna do when they get out, is party.

Drugs do not change the person. That is a fundamental truth, and only the truly ignorant would claim otherwise.

If you think drugs have "changed" your kids, then you don't know your kids.

Sorry, but that's the truth. I'm real sorry if it hurts, I know how difficult these things can be. But it is not right for you to project your pain onto the addict. The addict is not the source of your pain, you are the source of your pain. Leave the poor addict alone, he's got enough problems. If you want to help him, then take him to an AA meeting or an NA meeting.

YES, addicts have rights. They're people just like you and me. EXACTLY like you and me. If you think you're any different from an addict or an alcoholic you're just deluding yourself.

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Well said!

ballantine said:

You just don't get it.

You lost the War on Drugs. It's over and you lost.

It's just like Prohibition, why do we gotta keep learning the same lessons over and over again?

People are gonna drink and drug anyway, whether it's legal or not. There are only two choices in this equation: tax and regulate, or enrich the cartels. Take your pick. There isn't another choice. Nothing else is gonna work. If we're not total dunces we should have learned that lesson by now.

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Oh, I get it. And when you get your legalization of all narcotics for a few years we can address all the unicorns and rainbows that will come with it.

I've been hearing the dire prognosis from people for decades of the war of drugs and how much better everything will be when it's over, but people tend to be short sighted and unintended consequence is always there to bight people on the ass, especially when they think they know a thing or two.

DA60 said:

'The White House announced a new strategy on Monday to tackle the explosion in heroin use in a collection of eastern states, focusing on treating addicts rather than punishing them and targeting high-level suppliers for arrest.

The move is a response to a sharp rise in the use of heroin and opiate-based painkillers, which the U.S. Centers for Disease Control has described as an epidemic.

Heroin use has more than doubled among people aged 18-25 in the United States in the past decade, according to CDC figures, while overdose death rates have nearly quadrupled. An estimated 45 percent of U.S. heroin users are also addicted to prescription painkillers.

Announcing the 'Heroin Response Strategy' on Monday, Michael Botticelli, Director of National Drug Control Policy, said the new plan will address the heroin and painkiller epidemics as both "a public health and a public safety issue."

Under the plan, $2.5 million of $13.4 million in new funding to combat drug trafficking will target regions the White House said are facing a severe heroin threat: Appalachia, New England, New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.'

White House launches plan to counter explosion in heroin use | Reuters


What (if anything) should be done about this problem?

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I tend to think addicts should be pilloried. There's nothing like public shame to get someone to stop doing something bad.

Dealers should be punished to the full extent of the law. Including, for the leaders of operations grossing twenty million in a year, the death penalty.

jmotivator said:

Oh, I get it. And when you get your legalization of all narcotics for a few years we can address all the unicorns and rainbows that will come with it.

I've been hearing the dire prognosis from people for decades of the war of drugs and how much better everything will be when it's over, but people tend to be short sighted and unintended consequence is always there to bight people on the ass, especially when they think they know a thing or two.

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What's the downside to putting the cartels out of business? I don't see one.

What'll happen is what they already do, which is they grow their stuff in the national parks and national forests and such. But I mean, the federales are already on to that stuff, they have their "marijuana eradication teams" all over California right now.

On the flip side of the coin, the reality is that no one can "force" an addict to stop using. It just can't be done. You can do an intervention, and that might work for a day or two, and you can even lock 'em up in a loonie bin and that'll work for a few months, but the minute they get out they're going to be right back to doing what they were doing. You can't legislate that away, and if you lock 'em up all that means is you gotta keep pumping energy and time and money into the idea of "them not using drugs", and that's just a black hole. There's not even enough time or money or energy in the whole universe to keep that happening all the time. Look what we get for trying - prisons that are overflowing with young people who are learning how to be real criminals.

Whatever "unintended consequences" may arise from a policy that's already been tried successfully in other places, I'm sure we can deal with when the time comes. For now, it's clear that our current policy is not only not working, it's counterproductive. It generates mystique around the very drugs we don't want our kids consuming. It's a bad policy, it's wrongheaded. Even the DARE people are admitting it's wrongheaded now. We don't want to making criminals out of kids whose only crime is experimenting in the usual adolescent manner. But that's exactly what we're doing, with our idiotic "war on drugs".

Fenton said:

A dope sick heroin addict without a fix is a desperate and potentially dangerous individual

Legalize it ? Hell no.

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Holy... ****... this just happened... you said something worth agreeing with.

There should be enough treatment slots to treat everyone with little delay. In many places, months of waiting is required. Addicts should be able to get a prescription for heroin, needles and Narcam for personal use. That allows the addict to be fairly functional, and reduces demand for the black market product.

There is a reason that drug use goes in cycles. Younger people haven't seen the damage of the latest drug, they only see the damage from the last fashionable drug. For example, crack and speed have fallen out of favor because the damage is obvious. The damage from heroin is probably not obvious enough for young people these days.

Drug education needs to be much more credible. The exaggerations and misinformation needs to be eliminated. Using the people on the front lines, addicts, ex-addicts and drug treatment counselors, to deliver the information will have much more impact than a school teacher reciting the latest party line on drugs from a pamphlet.

Paleocon said:

I tend to think addicts should be pilloried. There's nothing like public shame to get someone to stop doing something bad.

Dealers should be punished to the full extent of the law. Including, for the leaders of operations grossing twenty million in a year, the death penalty.

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LOL - look at the numbers we're tossing around here. 13.4 million dollars. 20 million dollars.

Dudes and dudettes - that is peanuts! The marijuana industry alone is worth 10 billion dollars a year. Meth is bigger than heroin now, I don't remember those numbers exactly but they're BIG, they're big too.

That's why the cartels even exist, 'cause the numbers are big. That's why they can employ so many people, 'cause the numbers are big.

ballantine said:

LOL - look at the numbers we're tossing around here. 13.4 million dollars. 20 million dollars.

Dudes and dudettes - that is peanuts! The marijuana industry alone is worth 10 billion dollars a year. Meth is bigger than heroin now, I don't remember those numbers exactly but they're BIG, they're big too.

That's why the cartels even exist, 'cause the numbers are big. That's why they can employ so many people, 'cause the numbers are big.

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Then execute their leaders. Put them in a morgue.

ballantine said:

What's the downside to putting the cartels out of business? I don't see one....

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Often when the government takes down one gang, it upsets the balance of power between the other gangs and it causes a major increase of violence, usually with collateral damage to innocents.

In order to fight drugs other crime needs to see combat first. Because drugs flourish where crime flourishes. So if there are neighborhoods where drug use is very strong, to me that means that crime is way up there too.

Obviously only people that can not deal with real life would escape into drug use.

ballantine said:

What's the downside to putting the cartels out of business? I don't see one.

What'll happen is what they already do, which is they grow their stuff in the national parks and national forests and such. But I mean, the federales are already on to that stuff, they have their "marijuana eradication teams" all over California right now.

On the flip side of the coin, the reality is that no one can "force" an addict to stop using. It just can't be done. You can do an intervention, and that might work for a day or two, and you can even lock 'em up in a loonie bin and that'll work for a few months, but the minute they get out they're going to be right back to doing what they were doing. You can't legislate that away, and if you lock 'em up all that means is you gotta keep pumping energy and time and money into the idea of "them not using drugs", and that's just a black hole. There's not even enough time or money or energy in the whole universe to keep that happening all the time. Look what we get for trying - prisons that are overflowing with young people who are learning how to be real criminals.

Whatever "unintended consequences" may arise from a policy that's already been tried successfully in other places, I'm sure we can deal with when the time comes. For now, it's clear that our current policy is not only not working, it's counterproductive. It generates mystique around the very drugs we don't want our kids consuming. It's a bad policy, it's wrongheaded. Even the DARE people are admitting it's wrongheaded now. We don't want to making criminals out of kids whose only crime is experimenting in the usual adolescent manner. But that's exactly what we're doing, with our idiotic "war on drugs".

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Colorado saw an increase in drug crime with the legalization of marijuana.

Holland has been pulling back on their lax drug enforcement for years.

I mean, it seems to work for a while in the same way jumping out of a plane without a parachute almost seems like your're flying ... for a while.

Also, if you think legalization will eliminate the cartels then your unicorns are even more fabulous, and their farts even more vivid rainbows than I assumed.

I mean, what do you think drug dealers do when a drug is decriminalized, apply for unemployment? Get a job at McDonald's?

DA60 said:

What (if anything) should be done about this problem?

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Legalize it.

Regulate it.

And above all, educate about the dangers.

Tax it?


Edit: I mean, hell, look what has happened to tobacco use with effort. And it was legal the entire time. Do the same to heroin.

ballantine said:

The only reason there are victims involved is because drugs are illegal.

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proof or evidence that by making drugs legal that it would still be a victimless crime or is this just a broad stroke of a brush argument with little support.
I think I will go with the later.

Make the drugs legal, and there won't be any more victims.

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proof or evidence.

Drug addicts don't want to hurt anyone, they just want their drugs.

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yet they hurt themselves, they hurt their families, and they hurt other people to get the drugs legal or not.

It's the irrational fear that's causing the problems here, not the drugs.

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no I think it is the drugs.

The heroin problem has taken off because of people getting addicted to prescription narcotics and finding out heroin is cheaper.

If you want to fight the heroin problem, start with doctors, many of whom seriously over-prescribe pain medication, making it much easier to get addicted to.

I went to the doctor about a month ago because I hurt my back. He prescribed me an anti-inflammatory, a muscle relaxant and what he said was "a small amount of norco for the pain".

When I got to the pharmacy, his "small amount" was 60 10/325 norco, with instructions to take up to 4 a day.

ballantine said:

What's the downside to putting the cartels out of business? I don't see one.

What'll happen is what they already do, which is they grow their stuff in the national parks and national forests and such. But I mean, the federales are already on to that stuff, they have their "marijuana eradication teams" all over California right now.

On the flip side of the coin, the reality is that no one can "force" an addict to stop using. It just can't be done. You can do an intervention, and that might work for a day or two, and you can even lock 'em up in a loonie bin and that'll work for a few months, but the minute they get out they're going to be right back to doing what they were doing. You can't legislate that away, and if you lock 'em up all that means is you gotta keep pumping energy and time and money into the idea of "them not using drugs", and that's just a black hole. There's not even enough time or money or energy in the whole universe to keep that happening all the time. Look what we get for trying - prisons that are overflowing with young people who are learning how to be real criminals.

Whatever "unintended consequences" may arise from a policy that's already been tried successfully in other places, I'm sure we can deal with when the time comes. For now, it's clear that our current policy is not only not working, it's counterproductive. It generates mystique around the very drugs we don't want our kids consuming. It's a bad policy, it's wrongheaded. Even the DARE people are admitting it's wrongheaded now. We don't want to making criminals out of kids whose only crime is experimenting in the usual adolescent manner. But that's exactly what we're doing, with our idiotic "war on drugs".

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Many people are simply unaware of history, we know, and that includes the fact that until the Harrison Act in 1914, all drugs were perfectly legal. Anybody who wanted or needed a given drug acquired it by way of their physician or a druggist. There were no black market drug dealers on street corners.

Henry David said:

I hope you will go one step further and precisely define what you mean by 'decriminalize'.

To me, it seems absurd to say "OK you can use the stuff, but you just can't buy it". Irrational.

A friend's 30-something year old daughter was just admitted into rehab for heroin use, IV. Back in Vietnam, nobody used needles but many smoked it.

I think they should place special emphasis on providing, or allowing, clean needles for these poor creatures. It is a sad situation, but it is possible to manage the condition.

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Why? There are tons of things we can 'do' but cant purchase.

It's legal to own a billion dollar home...but I cant afford it. So no fancy home.

It's legal to have sex with a movie star...but only if they agree. So...no sex with movie star.

Those actions are legal, but for most people, access is just not available.

Kal'Stang said:

I knew that once MJ started getting to be legalized that people would then start trying to get other drugs such as heroin legalized. Perfect example of a slippery slope at work folks. Good Job! :thumbs: :bravo:

:2brickwal

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So what is the reasoning that isnt parallel with legalizing pot?

ludin said:

few drug crimes are victimless and drugs hurt everyone.

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Yeah, enforcement, court, and prison costs hurt us all dearly.