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Hillary Clinton pledges half a billion solar panels for US if she wins office

natsb said:
The irony in your first thirteen words is breathtaking. All indications are that solar is the wrong side. Solar can produce lots of power with current technology, but so what? It only works during the daylight. This makes it a great technology for cavemen, but not so much for modern times. For an energy source to be useful, it has to provide energy when and where we need it. Therefore, as most of us have already discovered, Solar is only really functional when combined with batteries. The solar generates the power, the batteries store it for when and where we need it. And that is the problem. For lack of a better technical term; batteries suck.

Ergo, I suggest the real side of the technology we need huge a breakthrough on is batteries, or some other power cell that will store solar energy until needed. Except for a few chemical changes, we still have the same basic battery technology we've had for a hundred years. Right now oil and coal are kings because they can store a huge amount of energy indefinitely. And it is real easy to extract that energy when and where we need it. I propose that generating energy is not the path to a carbon free future. Inventing a better portable energy cell than batteries is.
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That's the most ridiculous an uneducated commentary on solar I believe I've ever seen. It is a stellar product that has me even more advanced than my neighbours on the grid, never a single incident in nearly twenty years of my being without power, whereas my neighbours, 6-12 times annually. Being without power is caveman!! As for batteries, we've already agreed that they've come a long way and have a long way to go. For that matter the same can be said of all the systems components, and as I've demonstrated, is in fact in progression. The rest, the nay sayers can be left behind, no skin off my teeth, I'll continue to enjoy the freedom, security and economic benefits of my own solar system.
 
Anomalism said:
Cool.

Hillary Clinton pledges half a billion solar panels for US if she wins office | US news | The Guardian

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton has announced goals for increasing US reliance on renewable energy, pledging to have more than half a billion solar panels installed nationwide within four years of taking office. Clinton, the frontrunner for her party’s 2016 presidential nomination, also pledged on her website on Sunday that the US would generate enough clean renewable energy to power every home in the country within 10 years of taking office.
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Nothing like buying votes with other people's money.
 
natsb said:
Those articles expose all the problems with solar power. Yes, some customers sell power back, for a few hours a year. They also point out the obvious. Solar panels only work in the daylight.

The one thing all the articles agree about, is that solar power is impractical without the tax payers picking up the tab.

All the speculation is unnecessary. Germany is a perfect example of what happens when a country goes all in on solar power. We just need to accept reality and stay away from it.
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I agree.

No need to push solar with subsidies. The technology will get more efficient and cheaper.

We don't have a high enough population density near the good places to put solar. this means we would have to build an expensive HVDC transmission system as well.
 
Montecresto said:
I live in a solar powered house, eighteen years now, no utility bills. Installing them on our three offices in three states as well. Renewables are far smarter than finite and dirty fossils. But probably only necessity will eventually bring it about large scale.
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Did you do it all at market cost, or am I, as a tax payer, helping to subsidize you?

Are you using Nickel Iron batteries?
 
Montecresto said:
The first panels I put on my house back in 1995 were 53 watts and cost $500.00 each. Last year I installed 125 watt panels that were $230.00 each. See the difference???? As the interest grows, and more people get involved the price has come down. Battery tech has made great advancements too. The cost of my solar system amortized over twenty years is $16.00 a month. Argue with somebody that hasn't got the experience with the benefits of solar energy.
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I am a huge fan of the idea of using solar. I just don't see it as practical for most locations.

At what latitude do you live anyway?
 
Montecresto said:
No, I installed my own, have made my own upgrades along the way, maintain my own system/batteries. No scamming here.
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You build your own batteries????

You still haven't help us understand the $16. A 10Kw solar system is about $31.5k just in panels and batteries. And the batteries have to be replaced every 5 years. That doesn't include maintenance cost, wiring, circuit panels, etc. So even if we allow for magic batteries that last 20 years, that still comes out to $132 a month amortization.

No, I don't believe you are scamming. Although we certainly have different political opinions and we can debate them, you have never given any indication of dishonesty. Therefore, I will not claim you are anything less than honorable. I am just trying to understand the $16.
 
Fenton said:
Average homes down here need anywhere from 10kw to 20kw capacity to run everything.

You need quite a few of those 125 watt panels and allott of those expensive deep cycle batteries to get to that capacity.

But I'm sure you've done the math
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I was starting to disagree with you until I started doing the math. My winter peak usage is around 1,200 kWh, which would probably place my need at the 12kW range.
 
reinoe said:
There's no excuse for America not to be leading the world in solar power production save for Congressional ineptitude.
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Hmmmm....

Maybe your labeling of libertarian lean is wrong. Is that a libertarian, or progressive trait to ask congress for things?
 
Fenton said:
There's not enough encouragement in the world that would make me go Solar.

Again, the average House in Houston, ( where I live ) needs anywhere from 10 kw to 20 kw capacity.

One of those 120 watt panels might power a small Lava Lamp but not much else.

Its not cheap, its not practical, its not " Green ", and no, your'e not getting " free electricity "
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I agree with you, but if I could afford to, I would do it just to be off the grid.
 
Lursa said:
And yet, they do work here in the NW. As the articles stated, the panels absorb sunlight even in cloudy weather.

Can you give me examples where solar panels are accumulating snow? You do understand heat exchange, right? However maybe there are places where the snow builds up too quickly...Boston could be an *unusual* example of that this past winter.
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Most these panels at such latitudes are going to be at a 60 degree angle or so. Show should just slide off.

freezing rain... That's different. But, probably only drop the efficiency a little since the ice is transparent.
 
faithful_servant said:
Using a $200/month electrical bill, that's only a 16 year, 8 month ROI. GREAT IDEA!!! How about we use an intelligent approach and put passive solar to work?? There are vast number of passive solar solutions that be installed in new construction at little to no cost, plus several that can be retrofitted to existing homes. Everything from rooftop solar water heaters, to smart designs to maximize the solar absorption properties of your home in the winter and minimize them in the summer. So many things that we could be doing that would actually make sense and be affordable. I'd even go so far as to support zero-interest gov't loans to help people get some of these solutions put into place.
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Passive solar is probably more expensive, because of the maintenance involved.

Water pumps, changing the fluids, corrosion of pipes, etc.
 
natsb said:
The batteries cost around $4,800 every five years to replace,
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You should look into a Nickle Iron battery system.

They aren't as efficient so they will take up more room, but will last 20+ years.
 
natsb said:
You build your own batteries????

You still haven't help us understand the $16. A 10Kw solar system is about $31.5k just in panels and batteries. And the batteries have to be replaced every 5 years. That doesn't include maintenance cost, wiring, circuit panels, etc. So even if we allow for magic batteries that last 20 years, that still comes out to $132 a month amortization.

No, I don't believe you are scamming. Although we certainly have different political opinions and we can debate them, you have never given any indication of dishonesty. Therefore, I will not claim you are anything less than honorable. I am just trying to understand the $16.
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Lol no, I maintain them, in fact that's the extent of solar maintenance, once a month add distilled water. I have 15K in my system, that boils down to $16.00 a month and falling.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Hmmmm....

Maybe your labeling of libertarian lean is wrong. Is that a libertarian, or progressive trait to ask congress for things?
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Since when is demanding the government improve infrastructer "asking for things"? FFS.:roll:
 
Lord of Planar said:
Passive solar is probably more expensive, because of the maintenance involved.

Water pumps, changing the fluids, corrosion of pipes, etc.
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What crap. You don't know anything about plumbing, do you??? My house was built in 1987, so it's pipes are almost 30 years old and they don't leak a drop. The only fluids that intelligent passive solar designs use are good old fashioned H2O or possibly ethanol, neither of which is going to have to changed. My dad's well has been pumping water for about 50 years, so the pump isn't a problem. So what is that you have such an issue with?? Is it that by not backing solar panels, you are actually going against what a Dem. leader has said or that you would have to agree with a conservative?? Maybe it's time to start thinking for yourself...
 
Montecresto said:
Lol no, I maintain them, in fact that's the extent of solar maintenance, once a month add distilled water. I have 15K in my system, that boils down to $16.00 a month and falling.
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Okay, that makes sense then. So your system is around 5kw. That is plenty enough to run some lights, a refridgerater, and a well pump which could sustain a couple of people off the grid with a conservative lifestyle.

Although not a caveman, it might be considered pretty close by many. Therefore, I don't think your situation fits in the if-it-works-for-me-it-will-work-for-anyone category.

Those of us with a kitchen full of appliances, water heaters, heat pumps, etc, need more power than can be reliably provided by solar without auxilary power and a place at the government teat.
 
faithful_servant said:
What crap. You don't know anything about plumbing, do you??? My house was built in 1987, so it's pipes are almost 30 years old and they don't leak a drop. The only fluids that intelligent passive solar designs use are good old fashioned H2O or possibly ethanol, neither of which is going to have to changed. My dad's well has been pumping water for about 50 years, so the pump isn't a problem. So what is that you have such an issue with?? Is it that by not backing solar panels, you are actually going against what a Dem. leader has said or that you would have to agree with a conservative?? Maybe it's time to start thinking for yourself...
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Although the Lord didn't say anything about leaks, he has a point. I know a lot about plumbing and passive solar systems. House plumbing has little in common with what goes on in the solar system. Let us just start with the severe temperature change twice a day. That puts pressures on the plumbing that the household systems never see.

Yes, they leak, a lot. So much that I returned mine after only 35 days.
 
reinoe said:
Since when is demanding the government improve infrastructer "asking for things"? FFS.:roll:
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Since we have given them billions of dollars to improve infrastructure and instead build things like bike paths and other BS instead of roads and bridges.
 
natsb said:
Okay, that makes sense then. So your system is around 5kw. That is plenty enough to run some lights, a refridgerater, and a well pump which could sustain a couple of people off the grid with a conservative lifestyle.

Although not a caveman, it might be considered pretty close by many. Therefore, I don't think your situation fits in the if-it-works-for-me-it-will-work-for-anyone category.

Those of us with a kitchen full of appliances, water heaters, heat pumps, etc, need more power than can be reliably provided by solar without auxilary power and a place at the government teat.
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Yeah, but I didn't say that, and yes we're two people, but with all the necessary appliances, and amenities. Had I spent $30K it would $32.00 a month and falling. Btw, if you use golf cart batteries as many do, you may need to replace every 5 years. Mine are massive, cost 3K and are now ten years old with no signs of trouble. My system does automatic monthly supercharge for a prescribed number of hours to keep the platelets clean. On demand water heater and refrigerator is propane, with the tank filled once a year @ $500.00. I'm on 160 acres of wooded land and 25% pasture for raising beef. I have a large garden and fruit orchard. Three wood fireplaces in the house.
 
natsb said:
Although the Lord didn't say anything about leaks, he has a point. I know a lot about plumbing and passive solar systems. House plumbing has little in common with what goes on in the solar system. Let us just start with the severe temperature change twice a day. That puts pressures on the plumbing that the household systems never see.

Yes, they leak, a lot. So much that I returned mine after only 35 days.
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Plumbed with copper, pvc or Pex?? With Pex, you avoid about 99.99% of the problems with leakage. Also, a good plumber could have installed any of these leak-free for 20 years. If it was the unit itself that was leaking, then you bought crap. There's a local co. here that makes passive solar systems that are guaranteed 100% leak-free, so if yours leaked, then you bought a poorly made unit.
 
Montecresto said:
Well first of all, Germany's failure doesn't have to be ours. You've been schooled on this repeatedly. Secondly, nobody should be forced to pay for anything, but unfortunately it happens. I'm still seething over Bush's trillion plus dollar gratuitous war in the Middle East, but there it is anyway. Thirdly, my solar system is at $16.00 a month and dropping. You will be sidelined youngster, crude and coal will be replaced with an alternative and renewable energy source one day. You may go kicking and screaming, but YOU WILL GO.

Here, get an education.


Five Reasons Solar Will Power the Future
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/resilience-solar-power-future-success
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Should solar and wind ever become economically viable on it's own, without government life support, then sure, everyone will do the math and jump on board, and that would include some of the posters you've berated here.

But until the dollars make sense (pun intended), there aren't going to be may who'll burden the increased expenses just to be able to say they are green.

It's back to the Technology adoption lifecycle
DiffusionOfInnovation.png


Near as I can figure, solar panels are in the innovation phase and not ready for prime time main market deployment.
 
Fenton said:
Lol,

No, Solar technology is not " getting better every day ". No technology improves on a daily basis

You sound like a German Politician, circa 2008.

That's a ridiculous assessment of a technology thats been around for decades and STILL needs massive Government subsidies to compete with power derived from Fossil fuel
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It's clear you're not paying attention.
 
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