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First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down plane

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Can you please list where any neocon said we should go to war? I just want to see who you are talking about.

McNasty?
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

You can most certainly start a shooting war by trying to arm your enemies and enacting sanctions on a country with a decent size military.

Sen. McCain: Ukraine Needs U.S. Military Aid After Crimea Vote - Washington Wire - WSJ
The Crimean referendum on joining Russia is a “done deal,” and the U.S. should focus on pressuring Russian President Vladimir Putin and providing military assistance to Ukraine, Sen. John McCain said Sunday.
Republican Hawks Already Have a War Plan for ISIS, Ukraine, and Obama - The Daily Beast
Republicans Launch New Push To Arm Ukraine - The Daily Beast


President Clinton and President Obama Promised to Protect Disarmed Ukraine - The Rush Limbaugh Show
I mentioned yesterday that Bill Clinton in 1994 (and then the Obama administration in 2009, reaffirmed it) gave official diplomatic assurances to Ukraine that their borders would be safe in exchange for the Ukrainians gutting their army and completely doing away with their sizable nuclear deterrent.

This has not been reported other than the UK Daily Mail has now published an article that reminds us that that wasn't all Obama did for Ukraine. But the point is... Because the media isn't telling you, I want to stress this again. As you're watching what happened, as you watch us act outraged that Putin would do this, there were the number of signatories to this agreement. The UK, John Major and the Ukrainian prime minister. It was Boris Yeltsin for the Russian Federation, and Bill Clinton, and there was the ChiCom leader.

There were five of them, and they signed. They promised. They promised Ukraine that their borders would not be attacked, that their sovereignty would not be challenged, and that they would be considered for admission to the European Union. There was all this stuff dangling carrots if they would just gut their army and do away with their nuclear deterrent -- and Ukraine did. That agreement was reaffirmed in 2009 by Barack Obama.


Getting Rid of Nukes: The Trilateral Statement at 20 Years | Brookings Institution

1) You mean like the shooting wars with the user that happened in the 50s-80s? Right?

2) This is a 2 Parter: a) you do realize Rush Limbaugh doesn't actually stand for much in the right wing right? I honesty listen to NPR every morning and can't tell you the digits for fox radio.

b) so we DID make a deal and we DID tell Ukraine we would protect them? And Obama did reaffirm that in 2009? Sounds pretty scummy to me. Tell someone to disarm and then let their door get kicked in. Not a surprise though. Not from a democrat anyway.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...


Did he say we should go to war? Or did he say we should support Ukraine? And in what capacity?
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Did he say we should go to war? Or did he say we should support Ukraine? And in what capacity?

Did you notice the questionmark in my post?

Can you read between the lines?

McNasty offers a military solution to just about every 'problem' the US has, but one would expect that from a Naval Academy graduate, even one 5th from last. He is a war monger if there ever was one.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

This has not been reported other than the UK Daily Mail has now published an article that reminds us that that wasn't all Obama did for Ukraine. But the point is... Because the media isn't telling you, I want to stress this again. As you're watching what happened, as you watch us act outraged that Putin would do this, there were the number of signatories to this agreement. The UK, John Major and the Ukrainian prime minister. It was Boris Yeltsin for the Russian Federation, and Bill Clinton, and there was the ChiCom leader.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

The 1994 document was the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. No one promised to guarantee Ukraine's security, only to respect her borders. There is no legal obligation of military assistance on its parties.



A Right-wing conspiracy? Support for arming Ukraine is wide-ranging and bi-partisan...

Obama 'may supply weapons to Ukraine' (has sent trainers and non-lethal items)

Bipartisan group of senators push Obama to help arm Ukraine (Congress has already allocated the funds)

Preserving Ukraine’s Independence: What the United States and NATO Must Do (high level Clinton and Obama appointees recommend sending arms)

All former US ambassadors to Ukraine. All former NATO commanders. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter. US Joint Chiefs of Staff. New US Joint Chief Chairman General Dunsford.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Did you notice the questionmark in my post?

Can you read between the lines?

McNasty offers a military solution to just about every 'problem' the US has, but one would expect that from a Naval Academy graduate, even one 5th from last. He is a war monger if there ever was one.

Well I know to YOU...read between the lines means don't bother with evidence ;)

So please. Tell me. Did he call for WAR? Or did he say we should give support? And what kind?
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Well I know to YOU...read between the lines means don't bother with evidence ;)

So please. Tell me. Did he call for WAR? Or did he say we should give support? And what kind?

So according to the Henry David's of this world Russian backed Rebels shot down a civilian airliner because US neocons wanted to provoke a war. This is the musings from a padded cell obviously :mrgreen:
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Simpleχity;1064848475 said:
A Right-wing conspiracy? Support for arming Ukraine is wide-ranging and bi-partisan...

Obama 'may supply weapons to Ukraine' (has sent trainers and non-lethal items)

Bipartisan group of senators push Obama to help arm Ukraine (Congress has already allocated the funds)

Preserving Ukraine’s Independence: What the United States and NATO Must Do (high level Clinton and Obama appointees recommend sending arms)

All former US ambassadors to Ukraine. All former NATO commanders. Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter. US Joint Chiefs of Staff. New US Joint Chief Chairman General Dunsford.

We can also now add Gen. Mark Milley who is replacing the outgoing Army Chief of Staff Gen. Raymond Odierno.

Gen. Milley To SASC: World Getting Worse, Army Getting Smaller

July 21, 2015

So what’s the No. 1 threat to the United States? “I’d have to say it is Russia,” Milley said in response to Sen. Joe Manchin this morning. “Russia is the only country on earth that retains a nuclear capability to destroy the United States, so it’s an existential threat.”

To deter Russia and reassure allies, Milley said, “additional ground capabilities are necessary” in Europe. He also favors providing “lethal defensive equipment” to Ukraine, Milley said in response to questions from SASC chairman John McCain. Overall, Milley said, while we can’t predict Russian intentions, their track record of aggression — Estonia 2007, Georgia 2008, Ukraine and Crimea 2014 — suggests we need to be prepared to face a nation-state threat.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Simpleχity;1064848475 said:
You have no idea what you're talking about.

The 1994 document was the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. No one promised to guarantee Ukraine's security, only to respect her borders. There is no legal obligation of military assistance on its parties.
\
That is not how the those with their lips planted on the cocks of the military industrial complex are presenting it.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

That is not how the those with their lips planted on the cocks of the military industrial complex are presenting it.

This whole Ukrainian business is Putins and Russia's baby. If the US had any designs on Ukraine they could have walked in for free 20 years ago when Russia was militarily and economically prostrate and run by a drunk. Simplexity is right in that it is Russia and not the US who is clearly in breach of the 1994 Budapest memorandum guaranteeing the integrity of Ukrainian borders. Its their boots on the ground
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Well I know to YOU...read between the lines means don't bother with evidence ;)

So please. Tell me. Did he call for WAR? Or did he say we should give support? And what kind?

He spoke belligerent words. He acted in a bellicose manner. And that is a well established pattern for that particular 70 something year old politician.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

I wonder if one of the overwhelming pieces of evidence was the twitter post from a Russian separatists minutes after the plane crashed wherein he said something to the effect of, "We warned you not to fly in our air space." A tweet that was deleted just a few minutes after reports first started to come out that a passenger jet had just lost contact over the airspace in Ukraine.

It is also quite shameful the structure of the UN Security Council that a single member can veto such an investigation and there is no way to override that veto.

Or if this was a major piece of evidence...

Intercepted Calls Indicate Russian Separatists Shot Down Malaysian Plane

One phone call apparently was made at 4:40 p.m. Kyiv time, or 20 minutes after the plane crash, by Igor Bezler, who the SBU says is a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic. He reports to a person identified by Ukraine’s SBU as a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation Vasili Geranin regarding the shot down plane, which is about to be examined by the militants.

The second intercepted conversation released by the Security Service of Ukraine was apparently between militants nicknamed “Major” and “Greek” immediately upon inspection of the crash site.

“It’s 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft,” Major is recorded as saying, as he admitted to seeing no weapons on site. “Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.”

Read the full transcript of an intercepted phone call below:

Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).

Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?

IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its smoking.

VG: How many minutes ago?

IB: About 30 minutes ago.

SBU comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.

“Major”: These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.

“Grek”: Yes, Major.

"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first “200” (code word for dead person). We have found the first “200”. A Civilian.

“Greek”: Well, what do you have there?

“Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.​
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Did anyone in this site not see HD coming to the defense of Russia and blaming the U.S. with another conspiracy? Anyone?

Maybe you should just stick to your nukes at the twin towers bit. That one is funnier

I thought the Mossad coment was even funnier!
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Just a hunch, gents, based upon past performance.

What's really cool about the MH17 incident is that it fell (no pun) on the anniversary of TWA800. :shock:

Not cool at all. Nothing cool whatsoever about shooting down civilians.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

He spoke belligerent words. He acted in a bellicose manner. And that is a well established pattern for that particular 70 something year old politician.

I remember a certain Russian leader threatening little Denmark with nukes lately if it didn't do what Russia wanted. I'd call that pretty belligerent

Russia threatens Denmark with nuclear weapons if it tries to join Nato defence shield - Europe - World - The Independent
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Russia's Empty Gesture on the Downed Malaysian Jet


23thu2web-master315.jpg

Pro-Russia rebels in eastern Ukraine rode past a local
memorial to MH17 victims last week
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Not cool at all. Nothing cool whatsoever about shooting down civilians.

I guess "interesting" would be a better word, eh? :)
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

I remember a certain Russian leader threatening little Denmark with nukes lately if it didn't do what Russia wanted. I'd call that pretty belligerent

Russia threatens Denmark with nuclear weapons if it tries to join Nato defence shield - Europe - World - The Independent

I did not mean to say that McNasty was the only bellicose man in the world, no.

Russia threatens Denmark? Even if that is true, the US does way more than threaten--it delivers. In multiple countries around the world, we deliver "shock and awe" from the sky at least weekly. War is us.
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

I did not mean to say that McNasty was the only bellicose man in the world, no.

Russia threatens Denmark? Even if that is true, the US does way more than threaten--it delivers. In multiple countries around the world, we deliver "shock and awe" from the sky at least weekly. War is us.

Tell that to the Ukrainians :roll:
 
Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

That is not how the those with their lips planted on the cocks of the military industrial complex are presenting it.

Despite the tough new Western sanctions this week, Ukraine simply matters far more to the Russian elite and the Russian people than it does to the United States, the EU foreign-policy establishment or the American or EU citizenry. That is a reality that will not change with time. And it suggests that while Western governments will only take measures that have no significant impact on their economies, Russians—its leadership and people—are willing to pay a price to pursue their goals. In short, absent a negotiation process involving genuine give and take, the strategy of coercion will likely fail to change Russian behavior.

Why Obama's Coercion Strategy in Ukraine Will Fail | The National Interest
 
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