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Drug lord Joaquin 'El Chapo' Guzman vanishes from Mexican prison

americanwoman said:
It's no surprise that he escaped, only death would have stopped him from doing so. He is long gone and will probabl die before getting himself caught like that again. The thing is we should not stop trying to get him, Los Zetas is a criminal terrorist organization which not only falls under our supposed "war on drugs" but "war on terror" too. They are extremely well funded and trained and the longer we let it all continue the more power they will get. Mexico is looking extremely foolish right now but the fact is they didn't do anything to really prevent what they had to know what was coming. That tunnel right outside a supposed high security prison was too sophisticated to be built under their noses so it says a lot about Los Zetas place there.
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He's from the Sinaloa Cartel. Los Zetas are his competitors, morra. :p
 
PoS said:
The reason he got to be so powerful is because drugs were made illegal. If I were in charge of Mexico I would immediately legalize all drugs, its the only way to beat the cartels- screw the US government and their hypocritical anti-drug crusade.
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Exactly, we need to legalize all drugs and open the borders. Americans are so xenophobic and racist against mexico man, this whole thread reeks of funny paranoia.

Newsflash: a brown guy will move in next door to you whether you like it or not, conservatives.
 
El Sapo said:
Exactly, we need to legalize all drugs and open the borders. Americans are so xenophobic and racist against mexico man, this whole thread reeks of funny paranoia.

Newsflash: a brown guy will move in next door to you whether you like it or not, conservatives.
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That is a stupid and bigoted comment. You realize I don't care right? Hating Chapo has nothing to do with race. I hate the guy because he is a rapist murdering scumbag. And I hate anyone who is involved in the drug trade really. Dealers are scum.
 
I was thinking about this when the news broke.
If he has been planning this for several years, with almost unlimited money,
he could have set up a new identity, and even had a look alike standing in for him.
Most of us have had a neighbor, who we generally know what they look like,
but may not have had more than a "good Morning" conversation with.
If they planned it right, 'El Chapo' could become that quiet businessman neighbor,
who travels often, and keeps to himself.
Someone with a real history, ID , passport, ect. How would anyone know?
 
longview said:
I was thinking about this when the news broke.
If he has been planning this for several years, with almost unlimited money,
he could have set up a new identity, and even had a look alike standing in for him.
Most of us have had a neighbor, who we generally know what they look like,
but may not have had more than a "good Morning" conversation with.
If they planned it right, 'El Chapo' could become that quiet businessman neighbor,
who travels often, and keeps to himself.
Someone with a real history, ID , passport, ect. How would anyone know?
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We found Osama. ;) we found Pablo. We found saddam. It is a matter of time more than money. Is he worth the time?
 
OrphanSlug said:
He had to have had help, everyone knows it. So wherever he is, his money is keeping him safe. With the corruption rampant throughout Mexico right now, he will be back in business securing drug trade channels in no time at all.

Only we can do something about this, by ending this useless "War on Drugs."
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What makes you think he was ever out of business?
 
stonewall50 said:
You realize this man is responsible for not just the murder of dozens of people, but is known to gang rape women who refuse his approaches? The only thing he deserves is death. Nobody of sound mind would allow him to live.
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Can you provide some kind of link for this claim? I looked around on Google and couldn't find a story about this.

I have not heard any of these stories here where I am.
 
PoS said:
The reason he got to be so powerful is because drugs were made illegal. If I were in charge of Mexico I would immediately legalize all drugs, its the only way to beat the cartels- screw the US government and their hypocritical anti-drug crusade.
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Mexico is not the lucrative market.
 
americanwoman said:
No it would only increase unless there is a global push to legalize. If Mexico legalizes that only means they are going to manufacture much more drugs legitimately and then more border patrol on us to keep it out, circing back to the cartels making more product then needin more support to push it. Take for instance where I live in Nebraska next to legalized Colorado - we had to increase our highway and state patrol to try and control all the illegal marijuana being brought in - so it just creates more cost on us and more means needed on Colorado side to push it through to get to Nebraska. So in my opinion it needs to be legalized on both sides but that still does not diminish the money and power El Chapo has and would continue to have. It's just gone on too long now to control without extreme means.
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Mexico will not legalize drugs.

The pot legalization bill was just voted down.
 
PoS said:
He wont have any income anymore, his organization will dissolve and he will have to answer for all the murders his gang committed.
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Where on earth do you get that from?

If Mexico legalizes drugs, that will just make it easier to transport them to the US.

How does Mexico's laws have any effect on his wealth?
 
PoS said:
Let's face the truth here: the reason why Mexico is engulfed in violence is because of our insatiable appetite for drugs- we love to tell other governments that they have to fight the drug war yet we are the biggest market for it. If Mexico legalizes then we will be forced to do the same and that is a good thing since we are smoking and snorting it regardless of whether its illegal or not.
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Wrong wrong and more wrong.

Why would the US legalize drugs because Mexico did?
 
Mason66 said:
Maybe she doesn't know the difference?
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She does, it happens that people can't always remember every drug lord in Mexico. Los Anthrax (this is not a cartel, at least not when I was there) alone have had like 3-4 leaders at the same time. I mean, yeah Guzman is pretty well known, but with 6-7 cartels and 1-2 groups of enforcers per cartel, it's pretty easy to just get them confused.
 
nota bene said:
Yes. Here's an article you'll find interesting that discusses the theory that this cartel is the "least worst" as far as the Mexican government is concerned and the implications of this:
El Chapo's escape: No light at the end of his tunnel - CNN.com
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I lived in Mexico for 2 years (just went there less than a month ago). As rough as it sounds, I have more faith in him (Guzman) keeping the general peace than I do in the Mexican government's ability to do the same thing. As many murders and kidnappings under his belt as the guy had, he kept more unsavory groups like the Zetas at bay. I think a lot of people think that Mexico's violence during the 2000s was due to a cartel war alone. It was because of that, but I also fault the Mexican government for starting it. They sold what are called "plazas" (spots) to other cartels. Once that happens, all bets are off and the fighting starts. In Nayarit (which is usually controlled by the Sinaloa Cartel) that's exactly what happened. The governor, Ney Gonzales, sold the plaza, and well, **** popped off for nearly 3 years.
 
Hatuey said:
She does, it happens that people can't always remember every drug lord in Mexico. Los Anthrax (this is not a cartel, at least not when I was there) alone have had like 3-4 leaders at the same time. I mean, yeah Guzman is pretty well known, but with 6-7 cartels and 1-2 groups of enforcers per cartel, it's pretty easy to just get them confused.
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I am in Sinaloa. I would not go to Zeta country if you paid me.
 
Mason66 said:
I am in Sinaloa. I would not go to Zeta country if you paid me.
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I definitely believe you. I stayed REALLY far away from anything near Michoacan or Guerrero because those areas are still in dispute. You can basically draw a few lines in Mexico, and you'll see a direct relationship between the frontiers of cartel territory and fighting. Juarez, Durango, Monterrey, Chihuahua, are all cities that are smack in the middle of these lines (some a little to the left, a little to the right, but it's a general rule) and they've all seen their share of violence in the last 5 years. This isn't a coincidence. It's all related to the ways cartels fight. I think the US won't be able to even discuss the issue until more Americans actually understand the complexities (both geographic and political) of Mexico itself.

I hate to say it, but regardless of who is in power (Democrats or Republicans) we simply won't see any kind of smart policy because we're addressing it they same way that we addressed the gang problem in the 80s. We keep pretending that these guys are basically gangs running around and moving drugs. However, the reality is that they're more or less institutions within their areas of control. A lot of people get fed because of these cartels. At the street level and at the political level. I was in Queretaro a few weeks ago and had a chat with someone who works within some agency that deals with public works. She was telling me that the PRI's candidate had been entirely financed by the Gulf Cartel.

How the hell does the Obama administration even begin to talk about Mexico's drug issue when there are governors/representatives/municipal presidents in the country financed by cartels? How would a Republican, whose policies range from the myopic suggestion of closing the border to charging 100K for illegal immigrants (depending on the candidate of course) deal with that? They won't. They'll all keep suggesting silly things that won't even begin to fix the issue in any depth.

I'm not suggesting working with cartels. However there is no way any American administration, regardless of who is in power can discuss Mexico to any degree when they can't even imagine what it's like to live in the country. That's for damn sure.
 
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Mason66 said:
Wrong wrong and more wrong.

Why would the US legalize drugs because Mexico did?
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The US ought to since we are the biggest market for it- we consume more illegal drugs than any other country in the world, we incarcerate a huge number of our population for it and we are the main supporters of the Mexican cartels. You want more reasons than that?
 
PoS said:
The US ought to since we are the biggest market for it- we consume more illegal drugs than any other country in the world, we incarcerate a huge number of our population for it and we are the main supporters of the Mexican cartels. You want more reasons than that?
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You didn't say anything about the US legalizing it, you were talking about Mexico.
 
Hatuey said:
I definitely believe you. I stayed REALLY far away from anything near Michoacan or Guerrero because those areas are still in dispute. You can basically draw a few lines in Mexico, and you'll see a direct relationship between the frontiers of cartel territory and fighting. Juarez, Durango, Monterrey, Chihuahua, are all cities that are smack in the middle of these lines (some a little to the left, a little to the right, but it's a general rule) and they've all seen their share of violence in the last 5 years. This isn't a coincidence. It's all related to the ways cartels fight. I think the US won't be able to even discuss the issue until more Americans actually understand the complexities (both geographic and political) of Mexico itself.

I hate to say it, but regardless of who is in power (Democrats or Republicans) we simply won't see any kind of smart policy because we're addressing it they same way that we addressed the gang problem in the 80s. We keep pretending that these guys are basically gangs running around and moving drugs. However, the reality is that they're more or less institutions within their areas of control. A lot of people get fed because of these cartels. At the street level and at the political level. I was in Queretaro a few weeks ago and had a chat with someone who works within some agency that deals with public works. She was telling me that the PRI's candidate had been entirely financed by the Gulf Cartel.

How the hell does the Obama administration even begin to talk about Mexico's drug issue when there are governors/representatives/municipal presidents in the country financed by cartels? How would a Republican, whose policies range from the myopic suggestion of closing the border to charging 100K for illegal immigrants (depending on the candidate of course) deal with that? They won't. They'll all keep suggesting silly things that won't even begin to fix the issue in any depth.

I'm not suggesting working with cartels. However there is no way any American administration, regardless of who is in power can discuss Mexico to any degree when they can't even imagine what it's like to live in the country. That's for damn sure.
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You are absolutely right. You can't combat an enemy when you have no idea what they do or how they operate.
 
Mason66 said:
You are absolutely right. You can't combat an enemy when you have no idea what they do or how they operate.
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The most amazing thing is that few people have realized just how far this goes back. We hear all the time how the Palestinian-Israeli problem goes back a few centuries and things won't change but when it comes to Latin America we get these generic fix all catch phrases that don't really do anything for any country involved in the discussion. People think cartels are a brand new thing (I'm not saying you do, but a lot of the Americans I've talked to in Mexico) and even though they live in the country and understand the current situation they're blissfully unaware that this goes back about 200 years.

Zapata, Villa, Salazar, and pretty much any Mexican revolutionary leader who looks like Speedy Gonzales were all 19th century versions of modern day drug lords. I wouldn't go as far as saying they dealt in drugs - some did, some didn't - but they held the same position of power a lot of modern day drug dealers do. They ensured that those living in the locality were fed and loyal to them. Obviously, Mexican history itself doesn't really talk about all of the murders that they committed against each other, but if you're ever interested, head to the UNAM library and look up some of the documents from the period. The newspapers are chock full of little blurbs showing the level of violence that became normalized during the Mexican revolution. Again, this all goes back to what I was saying about how little Americans know about Mexico even though it's right next door. But yeah, let me tone it down, I get really excited when discussing Mexico because I find it to be such an interesting country and so misunderstood by most countries around it.
 
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