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"Agreement" at euro zone summit -officials

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TheDemSocialist

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Euro zone leaders at a marathon emergency summit on Greece have reached agreement, officials said.
"Agreement," said Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel in a one-word tweet. The Cyprus government spokesman tweeted: "Seems we have a deal." (Reporting by Alastair Macdonald; editing by Philip Blenkinsop)
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Read @: "Agreement" at euro zone summit -officials

Looks like their is an agreement which has been made. No details yet, just now breaking. Will this actually turn out to be a 'coup'?

 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read @: "Agreement" at euro zone summit -officials

Looks like their is an agreement which has been made. No details yet, just now breaking. Will this actually turn out to be a 'coup'?

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At present we are immerged in the fog of war and can really only guess at the things occurring. What was very interesting in the context, was an interview in WDR5 (public news station North Rhine-Westphalia) with Mr Verheugen. He was a German politician at the time and later a Commissioner on the Board of Commissioners of the EU Commission. He said that one should not think the politicians that made the Euro were naive and did not know the faulty construction of the Euro at the start. They knew them. They had not included necessary conditions for a currency, because the peoples of the continent did not want, the constitutions did not allow the transfer of sovereignty.

In other words, they knew, what they were doing and willfully destroyed over a hundreds of billions of Dollars of value and millions of livelihoods to pursue their ideological goals against the constitutional mandate and the will of the peoples they represented.

I am not sure how to fix this kind of thing. But a coup (d'etat) it certainly is.
 
I know the Greeks have believed that the German's want them out and were trying to present terms which were so harsh she would have no alternative.
 
alexa said:
I know the Greeks have believed that the German's want them out and were trying to present terms which were so harsh she would have no alternative.
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Who is 'she'?
 
"Agreement" at euro zone summit -officials

Seems like the only victory syriza got was that the 50 bn of assets to be managed by Europe will be held in Athens rather than Luxembourg. I would hope that any government would refuse the scale of these conditions and leave the currency.

They are essentially a EZ protectorate.
 
This looks like a terrible deal for Greece and one that makes further default, a year or two down the line, almost inevitable. It will kill growth, totally decimate their national assets and stir up social unrest for the foreseeable future.

Having said that, I have a feeling that Tsipras will not manage to get this past his party and he'll have to call new elections. In those the 62% who rejected a weaker version of these measures will make their voice heard. If Tsipras isn't willing to be the voice of anti-austerity, there are others who will.

Those Eurozone voices saying 'Grexit averted' may well be eating their words in 2-3 months time, or even sooner if parliament has some cojones.
 
alexa said:
I know the Greeks have believed that the German's want them out and were trying to present terms which were so harsh she would have no alternative.
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It is unclear, what is going on id est which political faction will win. There are obviously parties that want the Greeks out and those that do not. There are those that want to show the Eurolanders, what awaits heretics and those that do not think that that is a good idea.

But do not fool yourself. The main question in the eurocratic mind is how to use this willfully caused crisis to force Europe further down the road to "Ever Deeper Union". That is best achieved with great excitement, confusion and smoke and mirrors all over. It is that that you now see.
 
Andalublue said:
This looks like a terrible deal for Greece and one that makes further default, a year or two down the line, almost inevitable. It will kill growth, totally decimate their national assets and stir up social unrest for the foreseeable future.

Having said that, I have a feeling that Tsipras will not manage to get this past his party and he'll have to call new elections. In those the 62% who rejected a weaker version of these measures will make their voice heard. If Tsipras isn't willing to be the voice of anti-austerity, there are others who will.

Those Eurozone voices saying 'Grexit averted' may well be eating their words in 2-3 months time, or even sooner if parliament has some cojones.
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They have eaten so many words by now, you would think they were sick to death of them. But, I guess, that is how they earn a living.
 
It's scary actually. They'll all come to Australia lol. Heaps already have because you can't do anything in Greece, and now it's getting worse there.
 
alexa said:
Basically Greece is no more, Democracy is no more. I do not like Boris Johnson but in this he is more or less correct

Greece must rediscover the spirit of Marathon to burst its euro shackles - Telegraph
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Great article - and here's a poignant paragraph:

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"The first lesson is that this is what happens when a nation gives up economic sovereignty, in the hope – accurate or deluded – of somehow becoming richer. The Greeks thought they were being smart to sacrifice their monetary independence; they thought they could free-ride. They didn’t appreciate that this autonomy might be something valuable in itself – something they would one day yearn for again"

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Greece brought this upon themselves for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was their making a Faustian bargain.

They gave-up the sovereign right to print money - and now they're seemingly stuck, at the behest of the Troika.

I really don't see anyway out for them, except to hold their ground, and leave if the terms aren't there for them.

Either way will be filled with pain, but the past several years have been painful & not working, either.
 
Chomsky said:
Great article - and here's a poignant paragraph:

+++

"The first lesson is that this is what happens when a nation gives up economic sovereignty, in the hope – accurate or deluded – of somehow becoming richer. The Greeks thought they were being smart to sacrifice their monetary independence; they thought they could free-ride. They didn’t appreciate that this autonomy might be something valuable in itself – something they would one day yearn for again"

+++

Greece brought this upon themselves for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was their making a Faustian bargain.

They gave-up the sovereign right to print money - and now they're seemingly stuck, at the behest of the Troika.

I really don't see anyway out for them, except to hold their ground, and leave if the terms aren't there for them.

Either way will be filled with pain, but the past several years have been painful & not working, either.
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I obviously made a mistake putting Boris in! I should have realised it would give like minded an opportunity to pick on one sentence and make this the story rather than a little sub line which I read it as.

Much, much more involved than you believe.
 
joG said:
But do not fool yourself. The main question in the eurocratic mind is how to use this willfully caused crisis to force Europe further down the road to "Ever Deeper Union". That is best achieved with great excitement, confusion and smoke and mirrors all over. It is that that you now see.
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That's a very interesting observation, and I think you may be right, but that isn't going to happen, especially when 9, and now 10 including Greece' countries are not part of the Eurozone and, with this episode as a salutary lesson, probably never will be. Even those countries supposedly 'obliged' to join when they meet the criteria may consider it a bad idea and find a way to avoid passing certain eligibility tests. That's pretty simple; Sweden's managed it for 12 years.

So,this 'ever closer union' appears to me to be considerably less likely than it did a couple of months ago. The Germans particularly, ably assisted by the Dutch, Finns and Slovaks, the Commission and the ECB have given europeans a glimpse of the authoritarian, anti-democratic future that an expanded union could represent. Even those who have been extremely critical of the Greeks and their economic incompetence and previous duplicitousness will have noted the Troika's fairly blatant coup and thought, "that could happen to us".

They'll also note the complete lack of communitarian spirit amongst the entire EU in relation to the migrant issue. I wonder whether this might prove to be a watershed year in which the 'ever greater union' idea suffered a terminal reverse. I do hope so.
 
Andalublue said:
That's a very interesting observation, and I think you may be right, but that isn't going to happen, especially when 9, and now 10 including Greece' countries are not part of the Eurozone and, with this episode as a salutary lesson, probably never will be. Even those countries supposedly 'obliged' to join when they meet the criteria may consider it a bad idea and find a way to avoid passing certain eligibility tests. That's pretty simple; Sweden's managed it for 12 years.

So,this 'ever closer union' appears to me to be considerably less likely than it did a couple of months ago. The Germans particularly, ably assisted by the Dutch, Finns and Slovaks, the Commission and the ECB have given europeans a glimpse of the authoritarian, anti-democratic future that an expanded union could represent. Even those who have been extremely critical of the Greeks and their economic incompetence and previous duplicitousness will have noted the Troika's fairly blatant coup and thought, "that could happen to us".

They'll also note the complete lack of communitarian spirit amongst the entire EU in relation to the migrant issue. I wonder whether this might prove to be a watershed year in which the 'ever greater union' idea suffered a terminal reverse. I do hope so.
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Well according to Yanis Varoufakis it, or a Greek exit, is part of Germany's plan for the future of the Eurozone

Article to appear in Die Zeit on Thursday 16th July 2015
Posted on July 13, 2015 by yanisv

Pre-publication summary: Five months of intense negotiations between Greece and the Eurogroup never had a chance of success. Condemned to lead to impasse, their purpose was to pave the ground for what Dr Schäuble had decided was ‘optimal’ well before our government was even elected: That Greece should be eased out of the Eurozone in order to discipline member-states resisting his very specific plan for re-structuring the Eurozone.

This is no theory.
How do I know Grexit is an important part of Dr Schäuble’s plan for Europe?
Because he told me so!
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Dr Schäuble’s Plan for Europe: Do Europeans approve? – Article to appear in Die Zeit on Thursday 16th July 2015 | Yanis Varoufakis

Not going to help the British vote on staying in the EU.
 
Need details before I can call this as good or bad. Plus the various parliaments have to agree first.

However one detail that seems true, is that over 50% of the bailout is to be used by the Greeks to revitalize the economy.. and if true, that is huge. But we shall see once the details start to leak out or get released.
 
PeteEU said:
However one detail that seems true, is that over 50% of the bailout is to be used by the Greeks to revitalize the economy.. and if true, that is huge.
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Where did you read that?
 
alexa said:
Well according to Yanis Varoufakis it, or a Greek exit, is part of Germany's plan for the future of the Eurozone



Dr Schäuble’s Plan for Europe: Do Europeans approve? – Article to appear in Die Zeit on Thursday 16th July 2015 | Yanis Varoufakis

Not going to help the British vote on staying in the EU.
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Not a fan of his (reminds me of DeValera sending Collins off to negotiate Irish independence) but this is a recent op-ed by Yanoukis that makes a similar argument.


What do I mean by that? Based on months of negotiation, my conviction is that the German finance minister wants Greece to be pushed out of the single currency to put the fear of God into the French and have them accept his model of a disciplinarian eurozone.
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Germany won’t spare Greek pain – it has an interest in breaking us | Yanis Varoufakis | Comment is free | The Guardian

I suspect Germany is fully focussed on defining the fiscal nature of the Eurozone and the Union is very much ancillary right now. Keeping the Brits in or out or accepting new Eurozone members is not their concern right now. They want a common currency based on the German model of fiscal discipline, and they seem to have built up a dominant alliance of central and eastern european allies - they seem to be accepting of any collateral damage.
 
PeteEU said:
Was mentioned on Bloomberg and the BBC in passing. We shall see when the details are released.
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We shall see. I did a search. No returns on what you say.

In the meantime

Today’s bailout deal comes just eight days after the Greek people comprehensively rejected its creditors’ original demands.

Analyst Marc Ostwald of ADM Investors services reckons the measures in this bailout package are “infinitesimally worse” than the ones turned down in last Sunday’s referendum:

Indeed what is on the table as a deal highlights that:

a) there is no long-term future for the Eurozone;

b) the desire on the part of Eurozone creditor nations to completely destroy the Greek economy - it can certainly be asserted that this is indeed a worse deal than the 1919 Treaty of Versailles
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Greek debt crisis: deal reached after marathon all-night summit - live | Business | The Guardian
 
PeteEU said:
Was mentioned on Bloomberg and the BBC in passing. We shall see when the details are released.
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Hmm, sounds like hearsay and speculation. As you say, we'll see soon enough.
 
Andalublue said:
Hmm, sounds like hearsay and speculation. As you say, we'll see soon enough.
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Well it seems from what I understand, the 50 billion privatization fund is to be used fully on improving the economy. We shall see.
 
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