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Thread: Flag burners get attacked by bikers[W:634]

  1. #261
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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Alright.

    I think I see what you're getting at, here.

    Firstly, no definition of Liberal Democracy in today's context would ever allow for the enslavement of it's citizens. It's just not going to happen.

    Now, if we'd like to say 'in the context of the times' or some-such, that Liberal Democracies had slavery, fair enough - though I have issues with that, and at best might call them 'flawed'.

    But we've got to remember, we're no longer in 1861.

    You're graph is comparing an archaic era (Civil War era), with a modern one (WWII era), and then presented to us in today's context.

    Which era's definition is correct?
    As I said before, I'd define the concept more in terms of structure and underlying ideology than anything else. For example, even if the C.S.A. and early U.S.A. did not extend these rights or liberties universally, they certainly did believe in the concept of fundamental human rights and liberties, and base their governments upon those ideas. Likewise, even if the vote was not extended universally, or the exact structures in play differed from their contemporary versions, both governments absolutely were founded as Representative Democratic Republics, build around the idea of the consent of the governed being the fundamental basis for the right to rule.

    Now, it's entirely possible that, if the C.S.A. had survived, it would have gradually started drifting towards a less "Liberal" and more overtly authoritarian model as the need to suppress basically half of its population became more pressing. However, at the time of its founding, and for the duration of the war, there can be little doubt that it was, in fact, a "Liberal Democracy."

  2. #262
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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I laughed, I cried, I fell down. I was entertained.


    Yeah I know; free speech, fairness, law and order, blah blah blah.

    The bikers didn't give a ****, though. They saw something they loved under attack and acted. I have to respect that, even if they were technically in the wrong.


    And I loved seeing the flag burners outed as cowardly pussies lacking the courage to stand up.


    Yup. Highly entertaining.



    Almost as much fun as this was...


    Attachment 67187178






    Oops, am I being unfair again? Yeah I am. I don't much care. I don't like hippies. They're just lame. They're the wimpy, whiney annoying kid with "kick me" stuck to his back. It's sort of like stepping on cockroaches, it's just hard not to.





    Attachment 67187180
    You don't have to respect violence. Violence should be condemned, and dragged through the mud whenever it's drugged out by barbarians who can't respect a differing opinion. This kind of mindset is no better than the Muslims who thought they should shoot an art gallery in Texas. Shame on you, and shame on anyone who "respects" morons who resort to violence against free speech.
    The risk I took was calculated but man, am I bad at math.

  3. #263
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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    How old were you during the 1960's when us hippies were around? Were you even born then?

    Yup. Had some next door.

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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    You don't have to respect violence. Violence should be condemned, and dragged through the mud whenever it's drugged out by barbarians who can't respect a differing opinion. This kind of mindset is no better than the Muslims who thought they should shoot an art gallery in Texas. Shame on you, and shame on anyone who "respects" morons who resort to violence against free speech.


    Did anybody die? No. Anybody seriously hurt? No.... not much more than their feelings really.


    Don't know where your sense of humor went either.



    After all, it's just hippies.

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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Right because bike gangs are really the image of "patriotism" we need to regale... NOT! They're quite often criminals, murderers, drugs dealers, .... really, this is somehow good?

    And protesting police brutality is saying that the police should do their jobs properly, not that police should disappear. The only way these protesters would be hypocrites is if after the bikers were in hand cuffs or detained, the protesters suggested they should be mistreated, artificially set up to appear guilty, tased, shot, sodomized with inanimate objects, .... I don't think they did that. People protest abuses by police, not the concept of police over all.

    You folks are just so black and white in your thinking... police can do no wrong, and anyone who wants the police to obey the laws and honorable conduct somehow want the police to disappear and do nothing.

    Such childish perspectives.
    Black and white thinking would be profiling all bikers as being bad people.

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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Did anybody die? No. Anybody seriously hurt? No.... not much more than their feelings really.


    Don't know where your sense of humor went either.



    After all, it's just hippies.
    Sorry I don't share in the sentiment that censorship is funny if it's done to hippies.
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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    If you give a rat's ass about the law or the Bill of Rights, you'd side with the flag burners. There is literally no rational argument that the bikers were in the right here.
    Bahh, there are more important things to worry about than a bunch of mentally challenged drama queens on both sides. As a matter of fact this is about the most mentally challenged thread I have seen on DP. It also has been one of the most entertaining. Hell, people are dying and you folks are arguing about bikers and flag burners. What damage did it do in the whole to anyone except the idiots that were involved? NONE LOL. Really, this is a hoot. And for someone to INSIST that I take a side is even funnier. Which idiots do I want to enter into an argument about? None. I have to say, legally the flag burners should nave not been attacked. I also have to say, burning a flag around a bunch of bikers was not the smartest move. The bikers were legally wrong. It doesn't mean I am not amused by the idiocy on both sides. There isn't any significant damage/event/issue here. Just lots of amusement.
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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    As I said before, I'd define the concept more in terms of structure and underlying ideology than anything else. For example, even if the C.S.A. and early U.S.A. did not extend these rights or liberties universally, they certainly did believe in the concept of fundamental human rights and liberties, and base their governments upon those ideas. Likewise, even if the vote was not extended universally, or the exact structures in play differed from their contemporary versions, both governments absolutely were founded as Representative Democratic Republics, build around the idea of the consent of the governed being the fundamental basis for the right to rule.

    Now, it's entirely possible that, if the C.S.A. had survived, it would have gradually started drifting towards a less "Liberal" and more overtly authoritarian model as the need to suppress basically half of its population became more pressing. However, at the time of its founding, and for the duration of the war, there can be little doubt that it was, in fact, a "Liberal Democracy."
    Fair enough, you present a logical argument.

    At the very least, I find the graph misleading, especially comparing different eras - but if you'd like to stick with the definition in the context of the individual era, I'll go along with that.
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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by CMPancake View Post
    You don't have to respect violence. Violence should be condemned, and dragged through the mud whenever it's drugged out by barbarians who can't respect a differing opinion. This kind of mindset is no better than the Muslims who thought they should shoot an art gallery in Texas. Shame on you, and shame on anyone who "respects" morons who resort to violence against free speech.
    Burning a flag isn't really speech. It's an action and those veterans reacted. I don't like violence much either. People should stay out of your personal space I reckon.

    But think about it, do these politicals even know what they want? These people spend their lives psychologically bullying any one whos vulnerable, goodhearted and sensible. I think they got their just desserts.

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    Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    As I said before, I'd define the concept more in terms of structure and underlying ideology than anything else. For example, even if the C.S.A. and early U.S.A. did not extend these rights or liberties universally, they certainly did believe in the concept of fundamental human rights and liberties, and base their governments upon those ideas. Likewise, even if the vote was not extended universally, or the exact structures in play differed from their contemporary versions, both governments absolutely were founded as Representative Democratic Republics, build around the idea of the consent of the governed being the fundamental basis for the right to rule.

    Now, it's entirely possible that, if the C.S.A. had survived, it would have gradually started drifting towards a less "Liberal" and more overtly authoritarian model as the need to suppress basically half of its population became more pressing. However, at the time of its founding, and for the duration of the war, there can be little doubt that it was, in fact, a "Liberal Democracy."
    If the C.S.A survived the Civil War it was doomed to start a new one between the Confederate States. They would have seceded from the C.S.A. lol

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