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Flag burners get attacked by bikers[W:634]

Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
Oh my...do you REALLY think I meant physically protecting a 3 x 5 cloth flag? C'mon..please don't tell me you thought that's what I was saying. The Flag is a symbol of freedom and liberty. THAT'S what was and is being defended.
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and you support gang violence to support a symbol?
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
Oh my...do you REALLY think I meant physically protecting a 3 x 5 cloth flag? C'mon..please don't tell me you thought that's what I was saying. The Flag is a symbol of freedom and liberty. THAT'S what was and is being defended.
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Ok- Building on fire – you run in- only 1 thing you can take from the burning building – a US Flag or a person.
What would you take?
OK – Nonsensical question
Ok- Building on fire – you run in- only 1 thing you can take from the burning building – a US Flag or a family pet?
What would you take?
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
The Flag is a symbol of freedom and liberty.
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Oh that's why it flew in times of racism and genocide.

Thanks for the history lesson.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Marla said:
Pretty much the same deal. Let's see...flag-burning mentality = burning flags. And that's a problem because....
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Flag-burners = OWS = anti-American Values and tradition= unPatriotic. They hate everything America stands for.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

CRUE CAB said:
Yes, it is. I already told you I have no sympathy for someone burning our flag.
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Whether or not you feel sympathy for someone has no bearing on whether actions taken against them are legal or justified. It's pretty apparent you have zero regard for the law.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

polgara said:
It appears that half of that equation is conveniently overlooked today in too many instances! Must be the "entitlement" syndrome out of control and running amok! :thumbdown:
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Yes, it's "entitlement syndrome" to feel practitioners of free speech should not legally be subject to assault.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

JANFU said:
Ok- Building on fire – you run in- only 1 thing you can take from the burning building – a US Flag or a person.
What would you take?
OK – Nonsensical question
Ok- Building on fire – you run in- only 1 thing you can take from the burning building – a US Flag or a family pet?
What would you take?
Click to expand...

Ridiculous question, but I'll bite. Of course the person or the pet.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
Flag-burners = OWS = anti-American Values and tradition= unPatriotic. They hate everything America stands for.
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Says...who? You?

By the way, what is an American tradition besides starting wars, raping the third world into corporate debt, or nowadays militarizing the police?
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Marla said:
Says...who? You?

By the way, what is an American tradition besides starting wars, raping the third world into corporate debt, or nowadays militarizing the police?
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Yes, me...and I'm not alone.
Starting wars? "raping the third world"??? lmao We give more money to third world countries than ANY OTHER COUNTRY. Militarizing of local police? I'm against it.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Kobie said:
Whether or not you feel sympathy for someone has no bearing on whether actions taken against them are legal or justified. It's pretty apparent you have zero regard for the law.
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If you say so. I have regard for our nations flag. Clearly you don't.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
Flag-burners = OWS = anti-American Values and tradition= unPatriotic. They hate everything America stands for.
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You seem to have no sense of history. Was America founded because people were content with the status quo??? NO! So being content with the status quo is un-American. You just fail to recognize the truly un-American behavior, and that's using violence to keep a piece of cloth from burning, when burning that cloth is essentially akin to throwing the tea into harbor, and certainly not as bad as the tarring and feathering that was also going on at the time.... Burning a piece of cloth is not only a protected right, it's entirely patriotic for it represents refusal to be content with the status quo.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Marla said:
Says...who? You?

By the way, what is an American tradition besides starting wars, raping the third world into corporate debt, or nowadays militarizing the police?
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Says most people, well maybe not the OWS guy taking a crap on the patrol car. But most normal thinking people.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

humbolt said:
Those who wish to be treated with respect should demonstrate some themselves.
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Burning a flag, whether US or Confederate is disgusting.
And I find the Confederate flag personally offensive due to it being based upon maintaining a slave culture/society.
Does not mean someone take the law into their own hands and exact violence upon that person(s).

Are they truly defending what they state the Flag stands for?
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

JANFU said:
Burning a flag, whether US or Confederate is disgusting.
And I find the Confederate flag personally offensive due to it being based upon maintaining a slave culture/society.
Does not mean someone take the law into their own hands and exact violence upon that person(s).

Are they truly defending what they state the Flag stands for?
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Since there is no law against burning the flag, there was no law to be "taken into their own hands." Just to be totally clear.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
Yes, me...and I'm not alone.
Starting wars? "raping the third world"??? lmao We give more money to third world countries than ANY OTHER COUNTRY. Militarizing of local police? I'm against it.
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No, we give third world countries money in order to paralyze them with unrepayable debt in order to rob them of their natural resources.

You have yet to tell me what America's' traditions are. Need some help? How about obesity, poverty or having the lowest educational standards in the world. All of which are on the increase by the way.

Tell me I wrong and it's apple pie, a Chevy pick up playing Bob Seger and a god damn NFL game.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

JANFU said:
Burning a flag, whether US or Confederate is disgusting.
And I find the Confederate flag personally offensive due to it being based upon maintaining a slave culture/society.
Does not mean someone take the law into their own hands and exact violence upon that person(s).

Are they truly defending what they state the Flag stands for?
Click to expand...

The bikers were, in fact, less American than the people burning the flag.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Summerwind said:
You seem to have no sense of history. Was America founded because people were content with the status quo??? NO! So being content with the status quo is un-American. You just fail to recognize the truly un-American behavior, and that's using violence to keep a piece of cloth from burning, when burning that cloth is essentially akin to throwing the tea into harbor, and certainly not as bad as the tarring and feathering that was also going on at the time.... Burning a piece of cloth is not only a protected right, it's entirely patriotic for it represents refusal to be content with the status quo.
Click to expand...

But see, we are America now. Not fighting off the Brits anylonger. So that is not a fair comparison.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Summerwind said:
You seem to have no sense of history. Was America founded because people were content with the status quo??? NO! So being content with the status quo is un-American. You just fail to recognize the truly un-American behavior, and that's using violence to keep a piece of cloth from burning, when burning that cloth is essentially akin to throwing the tea into harbor, and certainly not as bad as the tarring and feathering that was also going on at the time.... Burning a piece of cloth is not only a protected right, it's entirely patriotic for it represents refusal to be content with the status quo.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. Let me try to clarify....
ie- I'm sitting at a bar with my wife and some guy comes in and says something out of line to my wife...he has the right to say it if he wishes...1stA... Do I have the "right" to knock him out? Legally no. It wouldn't be my "right" to hit him, but it would be my responsibility.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Summerwind said:
Based on what do you think burning effigies is illegal? Or unconstitutional?
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Nope, didn't say that. I said they are not protected by the language or intent of the US Constitution. SCOTUS again took the power they were not granted to re-interpret in freedom of expression. Expression does not equal speech and the framers would have **** bricks if anyone had suggested to them that the First would cover the mob burning effigies.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Summerwind said:
Since there is no law against burning the flag, there was no law to be "taken into their own hands." Just to be totally clear.
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Some states I believe have laws against it. Its also inciting. Doing so just to spark rage in others is wrong on all levels and hiding behind cops when you do it means you know its wrong and are too gutless to do it on your own.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

clownboy said:
Agreed. However, my point was the distinction between speech and the mob burning effigies exists. The founders meant to protect one and definitively not the other.
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Fair enough, but the the Supreme Court has ruled flag-burning is protected under the 1st, just the same.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
Ridiculous question, but I'll bite. Of course the person or the pet.
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And a flag can be replaced. Burning the flag does disgust me, reacting in a violent way is much more disgusting.

A fair number on this board are law & order, rule of law, the Constitution and such.
They state rights, and freedom of speech is the most often heard.
Well burning the flag is Freedom of speech/expression.

Appears they like laws, rules, and such only when they agree with them.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

CRUE CAB said:
But see, we are America now. Not fighting off the Brits anylonger. So that is not a fair comparison.
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Yes, it is. Status quo is status quo, doesn't matter who's setting the rules. It's patriotic in this country to act out in order to express one's disatisfaction at the status quo, it's what this country was literally founded on. If you can't see that, I can't help you. It means you prefer the required and unrelenting obedience and submission to a government and it's entities, I'm not okay with that. Neither were our founding fathers, hence the Constitution, which protects the rights of anyone to non-violently express one's opinion.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

Summerwind said:
Since there is no law against burning the flag, there was no law to be "taken into their own hands." Just to be totally clear.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the bikers taking the law into their own hands.
 
Re: Flag burners get attacked by bikers

GunFora said:
I don't disagree. Let me try to clarify....
ie- I'm sitting at a bar with my wife and some guy comes in and says something out of line to my wife...he has the right to say it if he wishes...1stA... Do I have the "right" to knock him out? Legally no. It wouldn't be my "right" to hit him, but it would be my responsibility.
Click to expand...

Its your responsibly to suppress through violence the first amendment rights of fellow citizens? Interesting. Tell me more. do you think this bar situation is really comparable? Nobody was harassing the bikers, and the flag burning was taking place on public property so the bikers had no authority to remove them.
 
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