Flag burners get attacked by bikers[W:634]

rhinefire said:

If the flag is what we stand for why is it legal to destroy it?

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Montecresto said:

Again, interfere with the legal activity of other citizens at your own risk. Say, why didn't you respond to the second point of my post?

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vesper said:

They were a group of anti-American activists the OP called weenies protesting the NYPD. Weenies is a good descriptive word describing those who are half airhead and half asshole. The flag burning was just an added touch to promote agrevation. But the very police department they were protesting came and protected them against the aggression of the bikers and their protest went up in smoke. Flag burning is protected free speech. Evidently defecating on the flag or publically wiping your ass with it is also free speech as two black activists started on the Internet a couple of days ago "Sh!t on the Flag Campaign".
SHOCK VIDEO: Black activists launch ?sh*t flag challenge? | The American Mirror
Charming.
These activists get their money from donors to promote such things. Maybe it is time we start focusing on who is behind the money promoting all this recent anti-American sentiment.

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Chomsky said:

Because of this little thing called 'the 1st amendment! And it's 1st for a reason - it's the cornerstone of a free people. Take the 1st amendment away, and you lose your freedom and what it means to be American.

The 1st Amendment was put in place to protect minority and unpopular opinion - exactly what this speech is. It is in the Constitution (and again, placed in the foremost and most prominent position) to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, and that is what the police should be doing here.

Many posters here are letting emotionality get in-the-way of their judgement, or perhaps there's a lack of knowledge on their part. The U.S. flag is a symbol - the Constitution *is* America. We are not a 'people', a 'culture', a 'geographical place', or a 'failed monarchy'. We are intrinsically unique: we were born of an idea, and the idea was codified in the Constitution, and it's all we have as Americans.

And to turn one's back on the Constitution, is to turn one's back on America - no matter how distasteful the exercise of those rights may be.

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humbolt said:

I should add that I'm definitely not the bad ass type. I am one of the more laid back and easy going people you might ever meet. Where I live, and part of the reason I live here, is that such demonstrations would be largely wasted. Nobody is watching because they have better things to do. Maybe that's why such demonstrations don't happen.

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sangha said:

A group of law abiding citizens is attacked by a mob of right wing thugs, and unsurprisingly, some DPers approve

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humbolt said:

I should add that I'm definitely not the bad ass type. I am one of the more laid back and easy going people you might ever meet. Where I live, and part of the reason I live here, is that such demonstrations would be largely wasted. Nobody is watching because they have better things to do. Maybe that's why such demonstrations don't happen.

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Montecresto said:

Right, the very police department they were protesting (actually, they're protesting because they want legislators to make law disarming the police. It's not as though the police decide whether or not they're going to be armed or not) was the ones to protect their right to do so because it's legal and the bikers were in fact breaking law. Why not criticize the protesters form if it offends you but condemn the lawless act of the bikers?

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vesper said:

I think the incident was handled just fine. The police came to protect the weenies and told the bikers to move on because they were in the wrong.

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clownboy said:

There was never the intent to protect expression. The First was to protect political speech and ONLY applies to the government's authority. Freedom of speech does not equate to freedom of expression.

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Summerwind said:

...they are criminals.

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GunFora said:

The libtard flag-burners have the right to burn the flag if they so choose. The bikers have the right to disagree. Looks like the bikers won.

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Chomsky said:

But that's exactly what the protesters are doing - they're protesting against the government (armed police)!

As distasteful as it is, it's the cop's job to protect those rights.

The bikers are doing criminal acts to deprive the protesters of their rights.

And the police should dutifully intervene due to the criminality of their activities.

The flag-burners are repulsive & going right after the police (via their gun protest), but the police are put in difficult positions everyday - it's their job to protect one's rights and enforce the law. It's not their job to cherry-pick enforcement of the law based upon their whim.

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Marla said:

The thugs have every right to disagree with the hipsters. Not many are arguing that. However, they have zero right to perpetrate violence towards those they simply disagree with. That itself is "unAmerican."

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GunFora said:

I agree. However, the Flag-burning mentality is part of the problem in America today. I guess the bikers are fed up too.

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Fearandloathing said:

What I see is a gang using illegal violence to quash a legal and peaceful demonstration. A flag is cloth, easily replaced, body parts are not. In all events, regardless of right and wrong, police have a mandate to end violence.....

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GunFora said:

I agree. However, the Flag-burning mentality is part of the problem in America today. I guess the bikers are fed up too.

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GunFora said:

Thousands of lives and body parts were lost protecting our Flag. I can understand how it would be difficult for people who may have served in the military and/or perhaps lost friends and loved ones in war to watch a bunch of looney libs desecrate Old Glory. I'd be woopin their ass too. I guess that would be MY civil disobedience.

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Marla said:

Seriously..? Flag burning in one of America's biggest problems?

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GunFora said:

Thousands of lives and body parts were lost protecting our Flag. I can understand how it would be difficult for people who may have served in the military and/or perhaps lost friends and loved ones in war to watch a bunch of looney libs desecrate Old Glory. I'd be woopin their ass too. I guess that would be MY civil disobedience.

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Chomsky said:

But that's exactly what the protesters are doing - they're protesting against the government (armed police)!

As distasteful as it is, it's the cop's job to protect those rights.

The bikers are doing criminal acts to deprive the protesters of their rights.

And the police should dutifully intervene due to the criminality of their activities.

The flag-burners are repulsive & going right after the police (via their gun protest), but the police are put in difficult positions everyday - it's their job to protect one's rights and enforce the law. It's not their job to cherry-pick enforcement of the law based upon their whim.

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clownboy said:

There was never the intent to protect expression. The First was to protect political speech and ONLY applies to the government's authority. Freedom of speech does not equate to freedom of expression.

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The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without interference or constraint by the government. The Supreme Court requires the government to provide substantial justification for the interference with the right of free speech where it attempts to regulate the content of the speech. A less stringent test is applied for content-neutral legislation. The Supreme Court has also recognized that the government may prohibit some speech that may cause a breach of the peace or cause violence. For more on unprotected and less protected categories of speech see advocacy of illegal action, fighting words, commercial speech and obscenity. The right to free speech includes other mediums of expression that communicate a message. The level of protection speech receives also depends on the forum in which it takes place.

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The Framers of the Constitution guaranteed freedom of speech and expression to the citizens of the United States with the First Amendment, which reads, in part, "Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech." Almost since the adoption of the Bill of Rights, however, the judiciary has struggled to define speech and expression and the extent to which freedom of speech should be protected. Some, like Justice hugo l. black, have believed that freedom of speech is absolute. But most jurists, along with most U.S. citizens, agree with Justice oliver wendell holmes jr., who felt that the Constitution allows some restrictions on speech under certain circumstances. To illustrate this point, Holmes wrote, "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic" (schenck v. united states, 249 U.S. 47, 39 S. Ct. 247, 63 L. Ed. 470 [1919]).

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clownboy said:

Agreed. However, my point was the distinction between speech and the mob burning effigies exists. The founders meant to protect one and definitively not the other.

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Fearandloathing said:

Sorry, but hoopla and verbiage don't replace reality. No one died "protecting" the flag, if anything they died protecting the country. there is a difference. Unfortunately, that flag has also represented some horrors around the world, and people in those countries, as well as your own have a right to express their opinion through legitimate legal means.

NO ONE has the right to beat the **** out of another human being. No One. Support outlaw biker gangs in the name of patriotism is idiocy....you throw out the rule of law for the sake of having only your way.

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GunFora said:

You should have read more closely. I said the Flag-burning mentality. The mindset is part of the problem. I never said Flag burning is the problem nor did I say it's one of America's "biggest" problems.

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