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Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail [W:96]

Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Oh I've never been an advocate to ignore problems, right here in this thread I've endeavored to show you the failures in USFP that create crisis and enemies, and the hypocrisies of such policies along the way.

Engagement seems to be more effective than isolationism.

Granted the colorful US history in FP, it might lead one to believe that often there aren't good choices available, and one of the lessor of multiple evils has to be chosen, or the option of ignoring is all that's left.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

And why should they?

Lets make a deal... if Iran has to give away with such scrutiny.. why does the US and Israel not open up their civilian and military nuclear projects to the exact same verification?

You are going off on a tangent with your comment. The subject is Iran. You need to stick to the subject. Yes, some of us have known what Iran's true intent is about its nuclear program. But the Iranians are correct in one aspect, that US president who gave the iranians the go ahead to have its own nuclear program.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Simpleχity;1064810872 said:
Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail





It's looking more and more like Iran is indeed trying to cover-up possible military dimensions (PMDs) to its nuclear program(s) and has no intentions of accepting a verification regimen that will ensure either agreement compliance or non-compliance discovery.

They are just taking a page out of whiny Obama's playbook.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

The US is to blame-because our naive weak-ass lefty President should never have attempted a deal. Now Iran has more money, still can make nukes just as fast as it would like, and gets to say it tried to negotiate.

Obama can't help but get his butt handed to him 24/7/365.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Oh I've never been an advocate to ignore problems, right here in this thread I've endeavored to show you the failures in USFP that create crisis and enemies, and the hypocrisies of such policies along the way.

It is quite true that the United States has changing policies that reflect the priorities of Presidential Administrations that come and go. Fighting terrorism with terrorism is not an indicator of evil intent, but of a relevant player in the global arena.

It seems to me, the cat is out of the bag. The ME is unique in that the leaders in it are culturally incapable of entering into agreements that carry the same understanding of trust and adherence leaders in the West expect. The question is not if they will violate agreements, that is a given, the question is by how much, and to what degree is tolerable.

IMO, the issue should not be keeping nukes out of the ME, but clear and unambiguous clarity about what will happen should they be used, and distributed. Assured destruction may prove a more viable deterrent than an expectation nukes can be negotiated out of the region.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Could care less about treaties and resolutions to be frank. Israel gets away with having nuclear weapons and selling it to hostile nations... and the excuse.. well they have not signed a piece of paper, but Iran who has signed it, has not started a war for over 1000 years (unlike others with nukes), is being badgered into allowing access to sensitive military sites, something that both the US and Israel would never ever allow if they were in the same situation.. just because Israel and the US dont believe that the Iranians when they say they are only doing it for civilian energy... this from the nation that lied to the world to justify an attack on sovereign nations..

This is news to me. Pardon my ignorance, but could you provide a credible link that documents Israel's sale of nuclear weapons to hostile nations?
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

And why should they?

Lets make a deal... if Iran has to give away with such scrutiny.. why does the US and Israel not open up their civilian and military nuclear projects to the exact same verification?



I don't know, it might have something to do with the fact Americans don't gather in the streets on a daily basis to chant "death to Iran".

Oh wait, you're an Obamalemming.....the Iranians are a peace loving people, wouldn't hurt a fly and never meant to harm anyone.

Sure, and Canada is planning a ****ing invasion.

Face it, you are defending a dolt with really stupid ideas
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Such naivety.

American Officials Admit that the U.S. Is a Huge Sponsor of Terrorism

The director of the National Security Agency under Ronald Reagan – Lt. General William Odom – noted:

Because the United States itself has a long record of supporting terrorists and using terrorist tactics, the slogans of today’s war on terrorism merely makes the United States look hypocritical to the rest of the world.

Odom also said:

By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In ‘78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism – in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation.

The Washington Post reported in 2010:

The United States has long been an exporter of terrorism, according to a secret CIA analysis released Wednesday by the Web site WikiLeaks.

The head and special agent in charge of the FBI’s Los Angeles office said that most terror attacks are committed by our CIA and FBI.



Wow. You have a world shattering news story there.

Where are the links.

If you hate the US so much why are you still there?
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Engagement seems to be more effective than isolationism.

Granted the colorful US history in FP, it might lead one to believe that often there aren't good choices available, and one of the lessor of multiple evils has to be chosen, or the option of ignoring is all that's left.

Except nobody has suggested isolationism. And true to winger ideology, engagement can ONLY mean war. :roll:
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Wow. You have a world shattering news story there.

Where are the links.

If you hate the US so much why are you still there?

World shattering huh? Are you accusing the American officials of hating America for pointing out the hypocrisy?
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Wow. You have a world shattering news story there.

Where are the links.

If you hate the US so much why are you still there?

Leftists "love" America like an abusive husband beats his wife-to show he cares.

This is how they show they care. :lol:
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

As if Pete and Monte needed the memo :lol:
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

That is the central problem the EU, Euroland and all those other European thingamajigs have.

LOL if anyone cares less about treaties it is the US... just ask the Mexican government.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

This is news to me. Pardon my ignorance, but could you provide a credible link that documents Israel's sale of nuclear weapons to hostile nations?

Nuclear technology, not weapons. And the country was South Africa. This is a well known fact.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

I don't know, it might have something to do with the fact Americans don't gather in the streets on a daily basis to chant "death to Iran".

Naw they are too fat and lazy to do that, so they do it online and their politicians do it daily on tv and in their congress.

Face it, you are defending a dolt with really stupid ideas

Not defending anything. I am pointing out the huge double standard this whole case has.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

More like because the US isn't an active supporter of terrorist organizations supplying arms and funding?

Err it aint? US supported the Afghan rebels who warped into the Taliban.. one of the rebels was Osama Bin Laden, who then started Al Q along with others who lived under oppresive regimes backed by the US.. politically and certainly economically. Then the US invaded Iraq, not once but twice, and took out Saddam, a brutal dictator but one that at least kept radicals down.. out of the power vacum came ISIS and well... see where I am going?

Or do you welcome the idea of Hezbollah gaining a nuclear weapon or a dirty bomb? And consider such as a stabilizing development in the ME?

Again, Hezbollah is a reaction to Israeli aggression and occupation of Lebanese land. It is Israel's problem, not mine. Hezbollah has never attacked outside its small geographic area. Also Israel is the destabalizing element in the ME, not Hezebollah.. cause Hezbellah would not exist if it had not been for Israeli aggression against Lebanon.

We can go on and on if you want.. the double standard is beyond epic in this case, like most **** in the ME.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Nuclear technology, not weapons. And the country was South Africa. This is a well known fact.

You claimed nuclear weapons were sold. So now South Africa is a hostile nation, is it? Hostile to whom?

Good to see you're at least backtracking from that nuclear weapons lie. Canada also sells nuclear technology to countries around the world. Guess we're evil too.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Nuclear technology, not weapons. And the country was South Africa. This is a well known fact.

If its so widely known than the proof is a click away...so go click.

We all know there isn't going to be any click, no posting of a link, because the only link is in your head.

There is ONE case of nuclear technology having been taken and used to make weapons, it was Pakistan.....and you will never ever guess who was the inadvertent culprit....not your hated US, South Africa, not Israel.....but......

Canada.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

LOL if anyone cares less about treaties it is the US... just ask the Mexican government.

Be explicit. I'm always interested.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

Except nobody has suggested isolationism. And true to winger ideology, engagement can ONLY mean war. :roll:

I disagree. You may think so, but that's hardly the only option for engagement that's typically used. While military action may always be on the table, it, most appropriately, is the last one used by either side of the political isle.
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

That's besides my point that regardless, the US will be blaming any failure on Iran.

At this point, the U.S. would be justified under such circumstances. If Iran claims their nuclear ambitions are for peaceful energy usage, medical and scientific research only, they shouldn't have a problem providing verifiable proof that's exactly what they're constructing nuclear energy to do.

I understand the counter argument here - that if the situation were reversed neither the U.S. nor the P5 countries involved in these negotiations would be so willing to open up their military and/or research facilities - but those who hold such a view miss the point. Neither we nor the P5 countries have threatening to use nuclear weapons against another country, nor have we/are they been sponsors of terrorism and, as such, refuse to denounce future participation in such terrorist activities or sponsorship thereto.

So, if the negotiations do fall apart, you can't say the U.S. (Pres. Obama) didn't try. I don't think asking Iran to verify their activities prior to loosing sanctions incrementally is too much to ask.

However, Montecresto makes a very valid point.

[“Unfortunately, we are witnessing many changes of stances, excessive demands and also different stances of several P5-plus-1 member states...”]This complaint from Iran seems to me very legitimate. The US, UK, China, Russia, France and Germany no doubt have conflicting interests in this. Seems perfectly reasonable that Iran would expect the group of six would present them with a co-operative expectation for compliance:

He said the disagreements came to a head this week, as the Iranian negotiators have struggled to come to terms with conflicting demands from the six.

“There have been changes of position, and multiple positions,” he said. Iran was being forced to try to make a series of bilateral deals, rather than trying to negotiate with a group that had a common position, he said.

Iran says world powers are divided and backtracking in nuclear talks - LA Times

So, if the U.S./P5 negotiations keep moving the goal post as it were and can't seem to agree on terms amongst even themselves, how do you expect the Iranian delegate to accept an unreasonably structured agreement? I'd say the principle negotiators need to get their act together and fast!
 
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Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

And why should they?

Lets make a deal... if Iran has to give away with such scrutiny.. why does the US and Israel not open up their civilian and military nuclear projects to the exact same verification?

Russia and the US have treaties to ascertain nukes and such.
Israel is not a signatory to the Nuke agreements -Non proliferation treaty- yet received their knowledge from Pakistan and North Korea. Both non signatories- NK withdrew from the traty years ago
Israel has made no secret they have nukes- they neither confirm nor deny.
Iran has made repeated attempts to gain that ability.
Iran has refused IAEA inspections.
The West does not want Iran to achieve the same capabilities as NK.
And I am sure you can figure out why. Right?
 
Re: Iran Opens Campaign to Lay Blame on U.S. if Nuclear Talks Fail

I disagree. You may think so, but that's hardly the only option for engagement that's typically used. While military action may always be on the table, it, most appropriately, is the last one used by either side of the political isle.

But why must the end result in this situation be war? Wouldn't keeping the sanctions in place be more reasonable than fighting Iran when we opened these negotiations in the first place? Why should failure to reach an agreement necessitate going to war?
 
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