• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

SC Confederate Flag Taken Down From State Capitol in South Carolina

So basicly your ignoring the fact the north killed most of the Black Americans on the Plantation who they ment to liberate from Slavery

Goodness, you haven't demonstrated that to be a fact, that the North killed most of the black slaves they encountered on plantations. You've recounted some oral history about one such account, but left out many pertinent details. Were the slaves fighting the Union troops? Were they just standing around in the fields and Union troops mowed them down? How many? Did this occur elsewhere?

What we KNOW from history is many black slaves fled the South, and joined the Union forces and fought on behalf of the Union forces against the Confederacy. About 180,000 of them according to several accounts. So I flatly don't believe that the killing of slaves was Union policy. Lincoln intended as part of the Emancipation Proclamation to bolster northern troops with freed slaves. Could those atrocities have occurred on a limited basis? Of course, but there were atrocities on all sides - it was a brutal war and people in brutal wars do horrible things.

but yeah let's say the war was based solely on Slavery. History is not always black and white my dear.

I didn't say "solely" but no doubt that was the biggest cause. Read the seceding states declarations in their own words.... dear ;)
 
Agreed. I personally don't like the flag or the prejudice that surrounds it. I also sympathize with the millions of southern people that were injured and died serving under that flag who never owned a slave. There was more to the civil war than slavery. Slavery was only a small issue at the outset of the division between the North and the South. But that is another topic.

My argument is if you are going to remove the flag maybe we should also remove everything else that is associated with slavery. Where does it stop? A lot of our presidents and founding fathers were slave owners. Should their pictures and monuments be removed? They clearly supported and approved of enslaving people. Do we stop with slavery or do we move on to the American Indian and everything that is offensive towards them? What about Chinese, Irish, polish, etc immigrants that were treated horribly when they first came to this country. Do we start removing anything and everything offensive towards everyone and anyone?

Why remove every association? Why hide our history? There is much to learn from history.

It's more about the appropriateness of the govt flying the flag as a current symbol of the state...proudly, something that was still supposedly representative of that state and its people.
 
So basicly your ignoring the fact the north killed most of the Black Americans on the Plantation who they ment to liberate from Slavery, but yeah let's say the war was based solely on Slavery. History is not always black and white my dear it's very grey. In fact the south, let them fight in the war their where many famous black confederate soilders that served in milta's at the time in the south. You might need to stop reading stupid books in fact their where several post from confederate soilders discribing the cooks joining the fights.

Don't worry about him. He misses the point on purpose. He has demonstrated that more than once.
 
So what? There are all kinds of garbage laws still on the books. The 13th Amendment made such laws moot when it was ratified by the states in 1865. Kentucky could still have laws allowing slavery on the books today and slavery would be just as illegal in Kentucky today as it was in 1865, 1866.........2015.

And goodness, when someone starts calling it the War for Southern Independence, you know they're Lost Cause types. Yes, there were many reasons, we've been through this, read the statements of the seceding states in their own words, read the words of the VP of the Confederacy in his own words, etc.

Wwhhhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh! There goes the point, OVER YOUR HEAD, again. Unfortunately I am not surprised, since it has already been established that you like to miss the point on purpose.
 
Kentucky — March 18, 1976[81] (After rejection – February 24, 1865)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I was right after all. Kentucky did not ratify the 13th amendment until 1976. You're welcome.

If I recall after 2/3rds of the States approve then it becomes law. If the fact the Kentucky took so long to approve this, then shame on Kentucky.
Is this something to be proud of?

And as noted earlier there were to 13th amendments.
 
Dad once told me a story about when northerners landed near West Columbia, Texas near Verner Hogg plantation the slaves and owners barley escaped since they landed at another spot a ways near another plantation where Union soldiers killed most of the slaves thankfully some escaped the massacre and made it down to other plantations after them and warned them to flee. Why in the world would they kill black Americans if this was a war done to liberate them from slavery. Verner Hogg was the father of Ima Hogg a famous democrat here in Texas. See the north was just as bad for blacks during the civil war, they did not discriminate on who they killed.

Wouldn't surprise me. Granddaddy used to tell me about the yanks cheating by bringing soldiers from other countries. He said that they were bringing them just as fast as we could kill them.
 
If I recall after 2/3rds of the States approve then it becomes law. If the fact the Kentucky took so long to approve this, then shame on Kentucky.
Is this something to be proud of?

And as noted earlier there were to 13th amendments.

Slavery was TECHNICALLY legal there until 1976. Just like in my home state of NC interracial marriage was illegal until the Constitutional amendment was overturned in 1971, despite the Loving ruling 4 years earlier.
 
Wouldn't surprise me. Granddaddy used to tell me about the yanks cheating by bringing soldiers from other countries. He said that they were bringing them just as fast as we could kill them.

LOLOLOL

Yeah, and that scalawag cheater George Washington, bringing in the French to help out during the Revolutionary War....what a jerk! We shoulda just let the British kick our asses. Waaaaa, so unfair! LOL
 
LOLOLOL

Yeah, and that scalawag cheater George Washington, bringing in the French to help out during the Revolutionary War....what a jerk! We shoulda just let the British kick our asses. Waaaaa, so unfair! LOL

I'm sure the English shared your opinion.
 
And to think we share the same hometown. I hate to think what schools out in my hometown of Seattle teach the kids about history.

I have no idea. I didnt grow up here and I didnt have any kids in the schools.

Like I said, you should really think things thru before posting.

We also share something else. You'll find it painful tho, lol.
 
Slavery was TECHNICALLY legal there until 1976. Just like in my home state of NC interracial marriage was illegal until the Constitutional amendment was overturned in 1971, despite the Loving ruling 4 years earlier.

Nope- no technicality invoked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. In Congress, it was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, and by the House on January 31, 1865. The amendment was ratified by the required number of states on December 6, 1865. On December 18, 1865, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed its adoption. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted following the American Civil War.

Same applies to interracial marriage- Note that sodomy laws are still on the books- but cannot be enforced.
 
Kentucky — March 18, 1976[81] (After rejection – February 24, 1865)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I was right after all. Kentucky did not ratify the 13th amendment until 1976. You're welcome.

Yeah, and so what? After December 1865 when the required number of states ratified the 13th Amendment, the action by Kentucky was a nice gesture of good will I assume, but not relevant to anything of significance. Slavery had been illegal in ALL U.S. states and territories for 111 years at that point.
 
Yeah, and so what? After December 1865 when the required number of states ratified the 13th Amendment, the action by Kentucky was a nice gesture of good will I assume, but not relevant to anything of significance. Slavery had been illegal in ALL U.S. states and territories for 111 years at that point.

Just letting you know not all states agreed with you. Mississippi didn't ratify it until a couple years ago
 
.... In fact the south, let them fight in the war their where many famous black confederate soilders that served in milta's at the time in the south. You might need to stop reading stupid books in fact their where several post from confederate soilders discribing the cooks joining the fights.

The confederate army did not allow black soldiers to serve until a month before the war ended.

The blacks that were there were slaves and served in a labor roles.

There were a few random unofficial blacks who fought.

Very few. Like a couple hundred.
 
Doesn't matter. Do they print copies of the Constitution in Southern history books?

Oh, we studied the Constitution in Mississippi - but they sure as heck never showed us the Article of Secession so we could see why we really seceded, nor did they show us the 'Cornerstone' speech by the vice president of the Confederacy so we could really see why the Confederacy attacked. Instead, we were supposed to believe that slavery was a side issue, and not the main issue.
 
Oh, we studied the Constitution in Mississippi - but they sure as heck never showed us the Article of Secession so we could see why we really seceded, nor did they show us the 'Cornerstone' speech by the vice president of the Confederacy so we could really see why the Confederacy attacked. Instead, we were supposed to believe that slavery was a side issue, and not the main issue.

Clearly the myth that "slavery was a side issue" has permeated deep into some who learned history in the South. A tragic mistake.
 
Clearly the myth that "slavery was a side issue" has permeated deep into some who learned history in the South. A tragic mistake.

No the MYTH that slavery was the main issue has been indoctrinated into anyone who believes what the textbooks say. THAT is what is tragic.
 
Oh, we studied the Constitution in Mississippi - but they sure as heck never showed us the Article of Secession so we could see why we really seceded, nor did they show us the 'Cornerstone' speech by the vice president of the Confederacy so we could really see why the Confederacy attacked. Instead, we were supposed to believe that slavery was a side issue, and not the main issue.

The MAIN issue was the right of the states to govern themselves as they saw fit. That meant keeping slavery if they chose to, among other things
 
Back
Top Bottom