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Thread: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

  1. #91
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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I think that like its predecessor, the UN was created to keep the peace, not be used as a place to go to seek permission to wage one gratuitous war after the other. I'm frankly glad to see Russia and China opposing the US on the UNSC in this regard.
    Like domestically security must be robustly enforced in the international theater. You cannot keep peace without force.

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    If we look at the larger pictures, it's clear that US enemies don't fear or respect this particular president.

    We have Putin and Russia and their actions in the Ukraine, as well as Russian military aircraft instigating confrontations, reminiscent of the cold war, this time off of the coastal US.

    We have Iran, who is engaged with the US in diplomatic talks on nuclear arms, also taking provocative actions.

    Can you imagine any of these things happening had Regan been president? Bush 2 being president?

    I'm thinking not.

    Obama has in fact put the US in a far weaker international stance the ever before in our country's history. That's hard to argue against.
    Yeah, we'd be embroiled in war with Russia right now, perhaps to your delight. But we fought radical Islamists in the Middle East near nonstop since late 2001 and the buggers are bigger, more sophisticated, and have wrested swaths of territory from governments, as well as humvees, tanks and god knows what else. And taking on Putin May be a win in the end, but it doesn't look anything like taking on Hussein or Gaddafi.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Do you mean stuff like rubber-stamping the second invasion of Iraq after the fact?
    No. And I hold you in high enough regard to believe that you know that.

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yeah, we'd be embroiled in war with Russia right now, perhaps to your delight.
    No (we wouldn't be), and no (I wouldn't be delighted - project much?). It's not a bad thing to have the respect of your enemies and / or challengers on the international stage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    But we fought radical Islamists in the Middle East near nonstop since late 2001 and the buggers are bigger, more sophisticated, and have wrested swaths of territory from governments, as well as humvees, tanks and god knows what else.
    This because Obama wasn't able / wanted to / see the significance of the SoF with Iraq and Afghanistan. Had we the SoF and in country precense, unlikely that ISIS would have achieved what they did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And taking on Putin May be a win in the end, but it doesn't look anything like taking on Hussein or Gaddafi.
    No one is advocating military conflict with Russia. Their respect is all that's desired, and it's clear right now, we don't have it.
    Nancy Pelosi said: “We have to pass it, to find out what’s in it.” A Doctor called to a radio show & said: "That's the definition of a stool sample"
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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Like domestically security must be robustly enforced in the international theater. You cannot keep peace without force.
    Well and when a conservative hears force, he singularly thinks bombs and missiles. Foreign policy is (should be) vastly larger than that, and bombs and missiles should be the last step of diplomacy. While the same ideology will refuse to acknowledge it, far too many times, war has been pulled off the shelf far ahead of the true hard work of talented statesmen who know how to work diplomacy were ever deployed.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    No (we wouldn't be), and no (I wouldn't be delighted - project much?). It's not a bad thing to have the respect of your enemies and / or challengers on the international stage.

    This because Obama wasn't able / wanted to / see the significance of the SoF with Iraq and Afghanistan. Had we the SoF and in country precense, unlikely that ISIS would have achieved what they did.

    No one is advocating military conflict with Russia. Their respect is all that's desired, and it's clear right now, we don't have it.
    It's not a bad thing to not have enemies, agreed. It's a better thing to not create them to begin with.

    And yes, that tired, blame the failures in the ME entirely on Obama.

    You don't deserve Russia's respect. That's not beat out of people it's earned the old fashion way. America hasn't thought about that, at least since becoming sole superpower.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Well and when a conservative hears force, he singularly thinks bombs and missiles. Foreign policy is (should be) vastly larger than that, and bombs and missiles should be the last step of diplomacy. While the same ideology will refuse to acknowledge it, far too many times, war has been pulled off the shelf far ahead of the true hard work of talented statesmen who know how to work diplomacy were ever deployed.
    Talented statesman are often successful. Think of Hitler. He was very talented.

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Talented statesman are often successful. Think of Hitler. He was very talented.
    Ok, now you're diminishing the importance of applying quality hard work on the diplomatic level, even mocking it by pointing to Hitler, very nice.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    One could argue that both modern day Israel and ISIS are a product of misguided US foreign policy in this region spanning decades
    Elaborate the argument please?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Iran-flagged ship targets U.S. Navy with laser

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not a bad thing to not have enemies, agreed. It's a better thing to not create them to begin with.
    Of course, however, sometimes (most often) your enemies don't really give you much of a choice, now do they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    And yes, that tired, blame the failures in the ME entirely on Obama.
    If you care to notice, I didn't. However, the lack of SoF agreements, the lack of Obama's emphasis in achieving them, is coming home to roost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You don't deserve Russia's respect. That's not beat out of people it's earned the old fashion way. America hasn't thought about that, at least since becoming sole superpower.
    Eh?

    The US doesn't deserve Russian's respect? No, I think the US does. What's certain is that this president hasn't earned Russia's respect, being as weak as he in on international affairs.

    If you don't believe that the US deserve's Russia's respect, then you must have a case of self-loathing and national loathing you need to overcome.
    Nancy Pelosi said: “We have to pass it, to find out what’s in it.” A Doctor called to a radio show & said: "That's the definition of a stool sample"
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