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Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse[W:79]

Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

What proof does she have to support her case? That a few people view it as offensive? So what? A few people probably view the American flag as offensive. It's stupid to reference a few people and then follow that up with proclaiming it should be removed.

And while I don't know if it was done for show, I do know that people do that crap when their case is weak and they are feeling they might not get their way. The evidence just suggests that it was fake and for show, sorry.

She referenced a few of her colleagues because they had just made speeches about how offensive they found the flag to be. You're really dialing back reality here. 75% of black Americans say that the flag is a symbol of racism. If you want to call that "a few people" rather than "millions of people," feel free to do so. But it seems like you're intentionally underplaying reality.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Because it is stupid....The flag did NOTHING to make anyone DO anything.

Of course it did. Stop it. It made Dylann Roof kill people. He wouldn't have killed anyone if they had removed that flag from the statehouse.

And if Son of Sam's neighbor hadn't bought a black Labrador Retriever, David Berkowitz would have just been a big cuddly teddy bear all his life, and not terrorized New York City for an entire summer.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Well, South Carolina's government is in a impossible situation. They are damned if they do take down the flag, damned if they don't. I think outside sources go invested way to much in this whole event, and now all of the attention has been taken off the victims and their heartfelt forgiveness for what the shooter did.

That should be what the Charleston shooting should be about, a community coming together and to forgive the shooter in a true Christian way, but instead, outside sources want to make it about a flag. . .

Got to love how we tear ourselves apart over something so stupid. . .

(By the way, my bias is to keep the flag there, just FYI)

If you live in Penn, you're closer to SC than I am, so you should know better than I do that the debate about the flag isn't new.

A lot of what you said sounds good to me, but to the perspective of millions of people (myself included), continuing to fly the confederate flag at the capitol makes it look like you are condoning racism. Maybe not quite condoning, but close to it.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

She referenced a few of her colleagues because they had just made speeches about how offensive they found the flag to be. You're really dialing back reality here. 75% of black Americans say that the flag is a symbol of racism. If you want to call that "a few people" rather than "millions of people," feel free to do so. But it seems like you're intentionally underplaying reality.

Yes, and 57% of people overall view it as a symbol of southern pride. Why should blacks frankly irrational view of the flag trump 57% of the people?

And it's 72% of blacks that view it as a symbol of racism, not 75%.
 
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Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Of course it did. Stop it. It made Dylann Roof kill people. He wouldn't have killed anyone if they had removed that flag from the statehouse.

And if Son of Sam's neighbor hadn't bought a black Labrador Retriever, David Berkowitz would have just been a big cuddly teddy bear all his life, and not terrorized New York City for an entire summer.

You should take your own advice:
Getting emotional never does any good in a debate.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Of course it did. Stop it. It made Dylann Roof kill people. He wouldn't have killed anyone if they had removed that flag from the statehouse.

And if Son of Sam's neighbor hadn't bought a black Labrador Retriever, David Berkowitz would have just been a big cuddly teddy bear all his life, and not terrorized New York City for an entire summer.

Hey there TB :2wave

You got that right....I think these kinds of actions in our governments these days are tests, to see how easily the mob can dictate what happens in the future....

Between this sort of shaming, and the kind that sangha tries to do to stifle you just above, is really dishonest to say the least.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Emotion overcomes reason, and reason is what keeps us alive. In this case, in another setting, mental health workers would be restraining her, but here, it works, and it convinces others of the need for whatever is being argued...beyond reason.

When I encounter such over the top emotions, I feel I am being manipulated. But then I have seen this whole flag mess as one big manipulation and diversion from the real problem. There are not going to be less shootings mass shootings because the Confederate flag was removed from the SC state house.

That too.... I guess I should have included that as welll.... I feel like Im being manipulated
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Hey there TB :2wave

You got that right....I think these kinds of actions in our governments these days are tests, to see how easily the mob can dictate what happens in the future....

Between this sort of shaming, and the kind that sangha tries to do to stifle you just above, is really dishonest to say the least.

This all seems to be stemming from people trying to assuage some guilt or something. If people in this country are stupid enough to believe that Dylann Roof did what he did because of the Confederate flag, then we're in really big trouble. Huge trouble.

Jenny's tears were moving, but meaningless. People are pretending that removing that flag will mean something. It won't. And unless we're going to remove every symbol that may offend anyone in this country, this is all for show. And some sort of guilt. All I know is I never met anyone in my life who owned a slave in this country. And that's in spite of the Confederate flag flying in SC.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

It might or might not have been for show. How could you know? And while a few minutes in she cited the shooting as justification, earlier she talked about how her fellow representatives viewed the flag as a symbol of hate. When half of your (capitol) city sees it as a symbol of racism, are you doing your job when you refuse to take it down?

That battle flag has only flow since 1950's 60's, I don't remember which, so taking it down should not be a much of a problem because it wasn't up since the beginning in the first place. It was put up for reasons of defiance. However crying crocodile tears is as lame a gambit as there is. Pathetic if you ask me. I would take the time to mock her every chance I could if I was a fellow legislator. She is as fake as they come and I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw an elephant and I would keep my eyes on my wallet at all time around her.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

She is proof we are a lost, soft, weak, pouty nation with zero spine and self respect.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

This all seems to be stemming from people trying to assuage some guilt or something. If people in this country are stupid enough to believe that Dylann Roof did what he did because of the Confederate flag, then we're in really big trouble. Huge trouble.

Jenny's tears were moving, but meaningless. People are pretending that removing that flag will mean something. It won't. And unless we're going to remove every symbol that may offend anyone in this country, this is all for show. And some sort of guilt. All I know is I never met anyone in my life who owned a slave in this country. And that's in spite of the Confederate flag flying in SC.

Me neither, and I live in SC.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

:roll: Jesus Christ woman, get a grip. The man was crazy and I assure you banning an inanimate object won't change that.

If only they had taken that flag down three weeks ago 9 people might be alive today! :roll:

It's interesting to correlate this with the previous uproar over the "Draw Mohammad" shooting.

Following the "Draw Mohammad" shooting Democrats were falling all over themselves to condemn the event coordinator and shame them into avoid such offenses in the future. Now that it's an American terrorist the Democrats feel the need to attack everyone with a confederate flag... :roll:

If another American Terrorist chose to shoot up an anti-Confederate flag demonstration how many Democrats do you think would blame the protestors for antagonizing the shooters?
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Oh, you're so right......*sniffle* :lamo

See - I told you so.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

They have the right to believe whatever they want, but they don't have a right to their own facts. Even if the flag didn't exist he would have still killed those people.

That is your belief. It is not a fact. You do not have a right to invent your own facts. I think you just said something very much like that.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Is there any other battle flag that is still flown 150 years after the nation was destroyed? I am sure someone has an example out there.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

See - I told you so.

hahaha.....That was mockery....Good grief....We need a face palm smiley....
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

That is your belief. It is not a fact. You do not have a right to invent your own facts. I think you just said something very much like that.

Oh? So what makes you think he wouldn't have killed these people if the flag didn't exist? What makes you think he wouldn't have just used a different symbol to justify his actions to himself?
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

If you live in Penn, you're closer to SC than I am, so you should know better than I do that the debate about the flag isn't new.

A lot of what you said sounds good to me, but to the perspective of millions of people (myself included), continuing to fly the confederate flag at the capitol makes it look like you are condoning racism. Maybe not quite condoning, but close to it.

That is the problem here, quite a few people (>50% of the country) think of it as a racist object. I honestly think that is their take on it, but not mine. Its a hard call to make if it should be taken down or not (At this point it will be) because that just backs up their resolve to keep this type of over reacting behavior going onto the next object to condone for being perceived as a hateful/harmful object. We have all seen the PC train hit other things like the Dukes of Hazard being taken off tv, perhaps the country needs to cool its jets because this entire situation is getting out of hand.

Since the flag is coming down anyways, (Bill was passed in House and Senate of SC), I think all of this can cool down a bit and both sides can come to some civility and debate out the true meaning of the flag without passions flaring just to appease political correctness.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

That too.... I guess I should have included that as welll.... I feel like Im being manipulated

If you have raised kids, you know exactly what it is. "If I don't get my way, I will cry and then you will be sorry"
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Is there any other battle flag that is still flown 150 years after the nation was destroyed? I am sure someone has an example out there.

Don't expect a lot of responses for this. I've yet to find anybody willing to explain why they'll use those same racist Democrats when they want to **** on modern Democrats, but won't do the same line of reasoning when it comes to removing the flag. ;)
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Don't expect a lot of responses for this. I've yet to find anybody willing to explain why they'll use those same racist Democrats when they want to **** on modern Democrats, but won't do the same line of reasoning when it comes to removing the flag. ;)

Seriously, it is ridiculous. Someone yell the south will rise again. It equates to me yelling end the fed. Never going to happen.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

She is proof we are a lost, soft, weak, pouty nation with zero spine and self respect.

Greetings, Crue Cab. :2wave:

Some of us are, but most are not. This is being sensationalized to appeal to people's emotions. That flag has been there for years and years, and no one has objected that I know of. Both sides have valid arguments - one side says it reminds them of the days when slavery was practiced, and the other side says it's a memorial to those who fought and died for something they believed in. However, it's HISTORY, whether people like it or not! Slavery is no longer practiced, and hasn't been for well over a hundred and fifty years, so there is no one living today who was there. Visitors by the millions have visited the battlegrounds of Gettysburg and Appomattox over the years - because it's part of this Country's history! I have not heard of any people from the church in Charleston who have lost loved ones say anything except that they forgive Dylann Roof's evil deed. They are living their faith, and while it can't be easy not to be bitter, they are somehow managing not to be. All I can say is Wow, because I don't know if I could be that gracious!
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

I don't see anything wrong with people being emotional about things they're passionate about but that emotion should be limited to themselves. I do take issue with public policy being determined based on emotion. One could pull the heartstrings in many directions with images of mutilated puppies, hungry children, homeless vagrants, dead and dying in the midst of war, and any number of other scenarios. Bad or ineffective/inappropriate policy can come from such places of the heart as opposed to the rationale of the brain.

All that said, her passion isn't a bad thing at all.
 
Re: Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse

Hey there TB :2wave

You got that right....I think these kinds of actions in our governments these days are tests, to see how easily the mob can dictate what happens in the future....

Between this sort of shaming, and the kind that sangha tries to do to stifle you just above, is really dishonest to say the least.



But note, amid these tears and wailing, what is her purpose?

She does not want the bill to go to committee because it will drag on all summer. In other words let's get this done before anyone think for themselves, stifle any kind of debate or protest and not allow a time for calm, a time for reason...or time for legislators to hear from the electorate in a calm, reasoned setting like the halls of democracy.
 
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