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Thread: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Does it really matter who decided? Do you even bother to spend even a second thinking about your questions?

    Nevertheless it was an issue that could not be overcome during the founding of the US, but eventually was as we all know. My guess is that Jefferson knew it was wrong from an intellectual perspective, but his debt, lifestyle and I think some people thought that the slaves couldn't survive on their own kept him from acting. It was definitely a crossroads, but he wasn't unusual for a southerner of the time. Nevertheless his ideals were the foundation upon which slaves were eventually freed. His influence on creating a self governing country cannot be overlooked. Should his memorial be torn down....hell no. Anyone who would go as far as tearing down those monuments is just radical.
    Yes, he knew slavery was an evil institution sustained by greed. I don't think that anybody's calling for the removal of his monument though. In this regard, the founders were/are a huge contradiction. But I don't think you need be concerned.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    There were even black slaveowners.
    Now we know slavery was legitimate.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    There were even black slaveowners.
    Most of whom used slavery to buy and protect their loved ones. Of those who did not, I suspect they knew that slavery was cruel just like white slave owners.
    "It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to." - W. C. Fields

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Now we know slavery was legitimate.
    We know that it was even practiced by a few blacks during the Colonial Era. So it was considered legitimate.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Most of whom used slavery to buy and protect their loved ones. Of those who did not, I suspect they knew that slavery was cruel just like white slave owners.
    I've never read that, but no doubt that was used as a clever loophole.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    We know that it was even practiced by a few blacks during the Colonial Era. So it was considered legitimate.
    What does that even mean? Nazism was "legitimate", genocide of native Americans was "legitimate". Too many people seem willing to dismiss evil because it was the accepted mindset at the time, everybody was doing it, etc.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    What does that even mean? Nazism was "legitimate", genocide of native Americans was "legitimate". Too many people seem willing to dismiss evil because it was the accepted mindset at the time, everybody was doing it, etc.
    Who's dismissing it? I think you're making **** up. You realize we're talking about history don't you?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country spoke, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    What are we going to be judged on 200 to 300 years from now? The use of fossil fuels? Internal Combustion Engines? 40 hour work week? What normal, everyday action will be considered completely foul and totally rejected by our great great grandchildren? It is silly to weigh the actions of those who lived in the 1700 - 1800 against the mindsets of the 21st century.

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I've never read that, but no doubt that was used as a clever loophole.
    Yeah, it was clever.

    From The Root:
    As Woodson put it in 1924's Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830, "The census records show that the majority of the Negro owners of slaves were such from the point of view of philanthropy. In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators."

    Moreover, Woodson explains, "Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms." In other words, these black slave-owners, the clear majority, cleverly used the system of slavery to protect their loved ones. That's the good news.

    Black Slave Owners: Did They Exist? - The Root
    The article also talks about Black slave owners who owned slaves for other, less benevolent, reasons.
    "It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to." - W. C. Fields

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who's dismissing it? I think you're making **** up. You realize we're talking about history don't you?
    Your commentary is consistently trivializing it, and yes, pointing out that he needed slavery because of his lavish lifestyle and debt isn't making the grade!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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