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Thread: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

  1. #111
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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Perhaps. We have the benefit of hindsight. Having seen how the colonies acted towards each other, and having seen recent European history they were completely justified in their concern.

    And while you're right that they were concerned mostly about white people - white males for the most part - I can't imagine how an additional war or wars would have made slaves lives better.
    Oh I'm no advocate of war, sorry to have misled you.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    I suspect you have no idea what you are talking about.

    In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them.

    Read more history and do less "judging by actions" because it appears you are not a very good judge.
    I posted a quote from a historian earlier in the thread that stated the exact opposite of this:

    As Woodson put it in 1924's Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830, "The census records show that the majority of the Negro owners of slaves were such from the point of view of philanthropy. In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators."

    Moreover, Woodson explains, "Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms." In other words, these black slave-owners, the clear majority, cleverly used the system of slavery to protect their loved ones. That's the good news.


    In other words, I am basing my opinion on a historian's words so not reading history is not the issue for me. Like I said in my last post to you, however, we can agree to disagree and if you think I'm wrong, I'll live. And, quite frankly, I've had discussions with several people in this thread and not one of them has been as personally rude as you have. And because I'm not in the mood for it, I'll let you have the last word.
    "It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to." - W. C. Fields

  3. #113
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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You are exactly right American...It won't stop until we tear this country apart and disband as a country. This whole thing is furthered by people in this country that are either ashamed of being American, or they are the guilt consumed for being lucky enough to having been born American....
    Lol. Glorification is not the exclusive means for the preservation of history, and "the ends justify the means" is a philosophy worthy of rejection.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I'm not sure what you're point is since you're just repeating yourself. I guess we'll just agree to disagree about Jefferson. If you think I'm wrong, I'll live with it. You can have the last word.
    I am sure you know what my point is. You can however keep with the intellectual dishonesty if that works for ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    i love my nation very much. gotta protect her from terrorists and atheists
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    imo imprisonment for the flag burning offense is necessary. also, mandatory sentences for those that watch and do nothing to stop it.

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I posted a quote from a historian earlier in the thread that stated the exact opposite of this:

    As Woodson put it in 1924's Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830, "The census records show that the majority of the Negro owners of slaves were such from the point of view of philanthropy. In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators."

    Moreover, Woodson explains, "Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms." In other words, these black slave-owners, the clear majority, cleverly used the system of slavery to protect their loved ones. That's the good news.


    In other words, I am basing my opinion on a historian's words so not reading history is not the issue for me. Like I said in my last post to you, however, we can agree to disagree and if you think I'm wrong, I'll live. And, quite frankly, I've had discussions with several people in this thread and not one of them has been as personally rude as you have. And because I'm not in the mood for it, I'll let you have the last word.
    Funny how you try to use stats from 1830 and than cut out the FACT mine are from 1860. Much more relevant to what was happening at the time before the Civil War.

    "According to federal census reports, on June 1, 1860 there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country's leading African American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.

    And again you chop out relevant facts in my quote to address just one small aspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    i love my nation very much. gotta protect her from terrorists and atheists
    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    imo imprisonment for the flag burning offense is necessary. also, mandatory sentences for those that watch and do nothing to stop it.

  6. #116
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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    1. Bulldoze and then melt Confederate Statues.

    2. Keep and honor the Jefferson Memorial.

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Lol. Glorification is not the exclusive means for the preservation of history, and "the ends justify the means" is a philosophy worthy of rejection.
    Funny...Here's where I suppose you use wildly over stated terminology to make your point, because you can't justify trashing a large part of this nations history like it or not.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    1. Bulldoze and then melt Confederate Statues.
    Hmmm....Sounds like a sure way to piss off a lot of people....Think about it....What if, let's say that your family and my family knew each other for centuries. And let's say that your family has some pictures up on your walls of prior family members that my family can't stand....Should I be able to come into your home, rip them off the wall, smash them, then burn them up?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Funny...Here's where I suppose you use wildly over stated terminology to make your point, because you can't justify trashing a large part of this nations history like it or not.
    Wrong, the engagement of human trafficking and slavery in fact is a trashy part of our history. Pity that you disagree.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #120
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    Re: Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hmmm....Sounds like a sure way to piss off a lot of people....Think about it....What if, let's say that your family and my family knew each other for centuries. And let's say that your family has some pictures up on your walls of prior family members that my family can't stand....Should I be able to come into your home, rip them off the wall, smash them, then burn them up?
    No, you shouldn't be able to.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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