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Thread: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Someone shot dead by a gun are still dead, no matter the reason. But you're right, the FBI and CDC stats don't include LEO gun homicides...because police departments don't like to report those if they don't have to. And if homicides are too high, they'll fudge those numbers to make their departments look better for election time, too. CompStat.
    Not quite. There's a major difference between a firearm homicide committed during a robbery by the assailant and a justified shooting ending in the death of the assailant by someone protecting themselves. The first is a crime while the second isn't, even though both have identical body counts by identical methods. The case with LEOs is even more clear cut in the vast majority of cases. So, gun death rates as a whole really are irrelevant since so many are not criminal attacks, such as suicides, accidents, self-protection, and LEO shootings.

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen.Seven View Post
    Not quite. There's a major difference between a firearm homicide committed during a robbery by the assailant and a justified shooting ending in the death of the assailant by someone protecting themselves. The first is a crime while the second isn't, even though both have identical body counts by identical methods. The case with LEOs is even more clear cut in the vast majority of cases. So, gun death rates as a whole really are irrelevant since so many are not criminal attacks, such as suicides, accidents, self-protection, and LEO shootings.
    Perhaps most justified killings don't show up in the numbers because there really weren't that many. Because if there were, you can be sure the NRA would make each individual case an ahh ha moment. So it's not that there aren't any, it's just that there really aren't that many justifiable homicides to go ahh ha about that would change the overall stats of gun deaths.

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Perhaps most justified killings don't show up in the numbers because there really weren't that many. Because if there were, you can be sure the NRA would make each individual case an ahh ha moment. So it's not that there aren't any, it's just that there really aren't that many justifiable homicides to go ahh ha about that would change the overall stats of gun deaths.
    Not really; one of the major points made by legal defense groups such as Texas Law Shield as well as general consensus among gun owners is that if you use your gun to defend yourself, keep absolute silence about it: no media, no social media, no posting on message boards, complete blackout. The reasons are varied. First of all, no shooting is legally justified until it's declared as such so any information you put out can and will be used against you. Secondly, even getting past the possibility of criminal charges, there's the matter of civil suits. Again, the general consensus based on myriad cases is that you will be sued, and any info out there provided by you could be used. Fortunately, the media gives little coverage to such righteous shoots, so for the most part the only info available and/or promoted is by the shooter which, unless he's an idiot, will be zero. As such, even if the NRA were inclined to promote a specific occurence, they would either get nothing from the shooter (the wise ones) or they would get less tgan desirable pister boys.

    So, you are right, justified shootings are under reported. However, regardless, that has no effect on the relevant metric: firearm homicide rate.

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    This is true, but the GUN is NOT responsible!

    A Gun is steel, wood, lead, plastic, oil and chemical propellants. It has no consciousness or free will.

    Would everyone be reacting to the tool used for dealing death, being a stolen item, if it the tool was a car, baseball bat, or crowbar?

    People act like "Guns" are some sort of magical thing capable of dealing death, were nothing else in the world can.... It is Stupid!

    If this murderer had used a stolen, empty beer bottle to commit his crimes, would we be discussing the source of the beer bottle?

    Gun or Beer Bottle, it doesn't leap up and commit murder!

    Do YOU know where all your empty beer bottles are?!!!!

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by WSUwarrior View Post
    I dont drink.
    I think you missed the point.

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurmugeon View Post
    This is true, but the GUN is NOT responsible!

    A Gun is steel, wood, lead, plastic, oil and chemical propellants. It has no consciousness or free will.

    Would everyone be reacting to the tool used for dealing death, being a stolen item, if it the tool was a car, baseball bat, or crowbar?

    People act like "Guns" are some sort of magical thing capable of dealing death, were nothing else in the world can.... It is Stupid!

    If this murderer had used a stolen, empty beer bottle to commit his crimes, would we be discussing the source of the beer bottle?

    Gun or Beer Bottle, it doesn't leap up and commit murder!

    Do YOU know where all your empty beer bottles are?!!!!

    -
    If said immigrant had not found the steel, wood, lead, plastic, oil and chemical propellants with no consciousness or free will, would that women be dead today?

    Interesting that you guys keep running from the truth; it is the available number of guns, like this one - floating around and getting into the wrong hands that causes gun violence to go up. Guns are quite inanimate in themselves, but when a two year old picks one up and shoots himself, that gun becomes the problem that we're talking about. That same problem, of an errant firearm, is exactly why that woman is dead.
    You can dance without a lawyer

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    If said immigrant had not found the steel, wood, lead, plastic, oil and chemical propellants with no consciousness or free will, would that women be dead today?

    Interesting that you guys keep running from the truth; it is the available number of guns, like this one - floating around and getting into the wrong hands that causes gun violence to go up. Guns are quite inanimate in themselves, but when a two year old picks one up and shoots himself, that gun becomes the problem that we're talking about. That same problem, of an errant firearm, is exactly why that woman is dead.
    Bull!

    If the guy was set on killing someone, he could have done so with a fist, or a bit of wire, or a rock, or a jar of gasoline, or a ...

    Only a FOOL thinks that you can take away enough "Weapons" to make the world safe.

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    Re: Gun used by illigal immigrant in killing belonged to federal agent

    Believing that Guns are the Cause of Murder is like believing that Pencils are the cause of Misspelled Words.

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