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Thread: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No, I've just read the source material. And it's about slavery and the supposed inferiority of the black race. Basically nothing else.

    I'm sorry this offends you so, but that's reality. And the denial of this fact is one of the many reasons the South is still thought of as quite racist. But that's your cross to bear, I guess.
    Like I said, you need a history lesson
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    No, I just think the name's funny! Michigan here, we have a new football coach that we're excited about!
    Still remember my alma mater Appalachian State beating you? GO MOUNTAINEERS!
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Columbia is a beautiful city. Used to show my horse there at the fairgrounds every March. How many times did you eat at California Dreaming?

    Hm. If I remember right it had just opened. I can't actually recall eating there... My buds and I were more commonly found at Taco Bell or the Pizza Inn.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Its wikipedia, no wonder.
    I've been requesting a better source.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Simple, it was over the state's right to govern themselves, as this country was originally founded.
    That argument seems a bit disingenuous to me considering that some states secession declarations specifically list grievances against other states for exercising their own states rights. Specifically laws that interfered with the enforcement of the Fugitive Slave act and limiting the southerners ability to transport slaves through their states.

    For example, the Texas succession statement calls out specific northern states for exercising their our states rights in these matters.



    "The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article [the fugitive slave clause] of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate the amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holding States in their domestic institutions-- a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith."




    Some would say the Confederacy fought against states rights (the rights of norther states) rather than for them.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Still remember my alma mater Appalachian State beating you? GO MOUNTAINEERS!
    Those days are OVER!!!

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by free_think View Post
    That argument seems a bit disingenuous to me considering that some states secession declarations specifically list grievances against other states for exercising their own states rights. Specifically laws that interfered with the enforcement of the Fugitive Slave act and limiting the southerners ability to transport slaves through their states.

    For example, the Texas succession statement calls out specific northern states for exercising their our states rights in these matters.



    "The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article [the fugitive slave clause] of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate the amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holding States in their domestic institutions-- a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith."




    Some would say the Confederacy fought against states rights (the rights of norther states) rather than for them.
    That's because those states were taxing the Southern states out the yin yang, and the South, as you might expect, did not like that. Who would after all?
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hm. If I remember right it had just opened. I can't actually recall eating there... My buds and I were more commonly found at Taco Bell or the Pizza Inn.
    If you ever get back to Columbia you need to go!
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Are we seriously still pretending the Civil War wasn't about slavery, despite the fact that several states' official declarations of secession and war were SPECIFICALLY addressing their belief in the inferiority of the black race as their main reason for it? What, did the Yankees sneak into their state buildings and write those declarations for them?

    Whatever. You're just choosing intentional ignorance.
    A) The North, up to and including Lincoln himself, believed that African slaves were generally inferior to whites as well. His ultimate hope was to ship them all off to Africa as such. The North can claim no moral high ground with regards to racism.

    B) Of course slavery was mentioned by the South as being one of their reasons for going to war. It was literally the crux of their entire economic system.

    That does not, however, mean that it was ever the South's primary reason for going to war, nor that it is the only thing the flag stands for.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Read this response from Goshen, it will enlighten you.
    Thank you for the insightful and most eloquent retort.

    I like how this professor does like everyone else who rationalizes the South's attempt to retain slavery. It wasn't they wanted to hold onto people who they claimed as property and keep them inferior and subservient, but it was all about economics - taxes, tarriffs, profits. Property rights is never part of the rational because it would force such people to face the inhumanity of slavery. It's never about forced labor because it would force such people to again face the inhumanity of slavery. And it's never about how White slave masters or even Whites in the north kept Blacks under their thumb as it were, i.e., anti-slave laws, Jim Crow, etc., ensuring that Blacks even when freed could easily and unjustly be forced right back into bondage.

    Taxes, tariffs, profits, property rights, lifestyle disruption in the south (and in the North to a lessor degree)...all used to justify an inhuman practice some of our Founding Fathers tried to abolish when this country was first broke from its mother stem. Twenty-five years after the Declaration of Independence was signed, the issue of slavery was suppose to be placed back before Congress to debate. That never happened and as a result, Southern states used every excuse in the book to hold onto this despicable way of life. They held on so tight that well over a century later, we're still "fighting" about it today.

    Shameful...
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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