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Thread: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh dear lord, not tonight dear, I've got to go to bed,
    Me too but admit that no one saw 9/11 coming. Like I said even the firemen were caught completely off guard. They even admitted it!
    Life is short, ride a horse

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    Me too but admit that no one saw 9/11 coming. Like I said even the firemen were caught completely off guard. They even admitted it!
    No I won't do that, and to explain why would take too long, derail the thread topic which we've strayed too far from as it is, and get us naughty points! Another thread, another day.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    So I guess you never understood that even blacks owned slaves also? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms Chew on that food for thought.
    Just curious what difference it makes that some blacks owned slaves.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Just curious what difference it makes that some blacks owned slaves.
    That slavery was really not that big a deal.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    <...>Not to mention the north was taxing the south ridiculous tariffs to pay off the War of 1812, and because the north had the votes in Congress, there was pretty much nothing the South could do about it.
    lol.

    Her posts are like reading a cartoon.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Just curious what difference it makes that some blacks owned slaves.
    Some did. Very few, by the percentages. But there's a reason the Lost Causers so often refer to the "black slaveholders."

    It has a lot to do with assuaging the guilt of the fully white man, who sought to preserve his superiority over the black race, in some states where the population of slaves were more majority than free -- and was willing to die to keep White Supremacy intact.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    "Black Slaveowners" is pushed by David Grooms, and comes up repeatedly from the Lost Causers.

    Grooms plays fast and loose with his numbers and has been debunked repeatedly.

    Grooms writes for the Barnes Review. What is the Barnes Review?

    Barnes Review

    The Barnes Review is a bi-monthly magazine founded in 1994 by Willis Carto, dedicated to historical revisionism such as Holocaust denial.

    ^ "Willis A. Carto: Fabricating History". Anti-Defamation League.

    But let's get beyond that.

    It is certainly true there were black slaveowners, but I'm sure, as many know, those free blacks were often prisoners in their own states.
    Laws in many Southern states forbade them to even leave the state - unless it was permanent, they were restricted in commerce, legal matters, etc...; just simply living for a free black, even ones who had built up wealth was not as some would have you believe.

    As the war approached, even more laws were written that could snatch away their "freedom" at any given moment
    ...and of course, Dred Scott made it clear they were not even citizens of the country they lived in. read that again: Even Free Blacks were not citizens of the country they lived in

    Yes, some black slaveowners bought slaves to purchase their kin's freedom, sometimes a husband would purchase a wife, some did it for economic, pragmatic reasons, and some were just as dastardly as their fully white counterparts. All true.

    But Grooms inflates numbers by playing with statistics and presenting a much different picture than actually was.
    He also fails to mention a good portion of those "negro slaveowners" were mulattoes -- by all appearances, quite white. But coal black, brown or white - still, all in all, the numbers were very, very small.

    Also, the preponderance of those (what are referred to as) "black slaveholders" were actually Colored Creoles.

    An important legal distinction, which I'll explain in my next post.

    Not to veer too off-topic, but I think a few might find it interesting.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Antoine Dubuclet is brought up by Grooms. It's true he was a wealthy slaveholder.

    In fact most of the slaveholders brought up in the "black slaveholder" discussion came from Louisiana, and that state was rather unique. They were "Colored Creoles," - many were upwardly mobile, wealthy and a disproportional number owned slaves.

    The distinction is often blurred though when referring to them as "Black slaveowners" as

    1) most looked quite fair skinned by appearance.

    2) many were of European ancestry, not considered "African" or "Black" - and were given special status for a time.

    "By 1843, the Colored group was no longer named as legislative special case, but they still considered themselves exempt, and the courts still usually upheld their special status. Numerous court cases held that the Colored Creoles were not considered Black regarding freedom papers, curfews, and the like. But by the 1850s, the courts had begun to treat all but the wealthiest and most powerful Colored Creoles as free Blacks."

    The One-Drop Rule Arrives in the Postbellum Lower South | | The Color Line and the One-Drop Rule

    In fact it was considered an insult to call a Colored Creole a "Free Black."

    Legally, They were "Colored" a serious distinction made by numerous courts.

    A Free Black there was not allowed a trial by Jury BUT! “Free persons of Colour" *were* entitled to a trial by jury.

    "Justice Porter went on to explain that, since the [Colored Creole] was not Black..."

    Legal History of the Color Line: The Rise and Triumph of the One-drop Rule

    It's a rather fascinating nugget regarding the caste system back then which some probably didn't care to hear, (or maybe even bother to read) -- but I enjoy sharing these little bits of history. It's how I roll.

    How many knew there three legal color lines back then? White, Colored, and Black.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    So do you deny that slavery was still going on up north? Or do you think it was only a southern thing? Remember how the slaves got here in the first place. They were brought from Africa, some traded for rum in the Caribbean, then some were brought to the north, who in turn sold them to the south. I never denied that the south at the time was wanting to preserve slavery, however it was on the way out. A lot of plantation owners worked their own fields. Not to mention the north was taxing the south ridiculous tariffs to pay off the War of 1812, and because the north had the votes in Congress, there was pretty much nothing the South could do about it.
    Does this make the symbol of a nation that started a war to preserve slavery better?

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    I see with #3 you admit that Lincoln was not the saint people have been indoctrinated to think he was. Glad to see someone else admit it.
    In other words you can't actually refute the other points I made. Noted.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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