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Thread: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    No it was the economic consequences the north would suffer that caused the war at first. Most states up north didn't care one way or the other if the south left. However they realized that in the cold of winter there was a good chance the ports would freeze, and the South would have control of the Mississippi not to mention ports that didn't freeze, they realized oh ****, we're screwed! The South also would have been able to expand out west and still allow slavery (which was on its way out anyway, since only a minority of the wealthiest Southerners had slaves to begin with).
    It was always the minority of southerners that owned slaves, which was the source of their wealth, and wasn't going to be surrendered easily. I don't know of anybody that denies the various elements at stake, and in the southern states charters for secession. But denying that the preservation of slavery was high on the list is dishonest of you, and doesn't make for quality debate.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So what? He was proven wrong.
    No, not at all. But what's the point in this rabbit trail, you too wishing the government was the size it was in 1803?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It was always the minority of southerners that owned slaves, which was the source of their wealth, and wasn't going to be surrendered easily. I don't know of anybody that denies the various elements at stake, and in the southern states charters for secession. But denying that the preservation of slavery was high on the list is dishonest of you, and doesn't make for quality debate.
    So do you deny that slavery was still going on up north? Or do you think it was only a southern thing? Remember how the slaves got here in the first place. They were brought from Africa, some traded for rum in the Caribbean, then some were brought to the north, who in turn sold them to the south. I never denied that the south at the time was wanting to preserve slavery, however it was on the way out. A lot of plantation owners worked their own fields. Not to mention the north was taxing the south ridiculous tariffs to pay off the War of 1812, and because the north had the votes in Congress, there was pretty much nothing the South could do about it.
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yeah, yeah, yeah, if the liberal determines something is needed the government must do it. Spare me.
    For Pete's sake. If the conservative determines that something is needed the government must do it too.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    For Pete's sake. If the conservative determines that something is needed the government must do it too.
    Yeah? Since when?

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    So do you deny that slavery was still going on up north? Or do you think it was only a southern thing? Remember how the slaves got here in the first place. They were brought from Africa, some traded for rum in the Caribbean, then some were brought to the north, who in turn sold them to the south. I never denied that the south at the time was wanting to preserve slavery, however it was on the way out. A lot of plantation owners worked their own fields. Not to mention the north was taxing the south ridiculous tariffs to pay off the War of 1812, and because the north had the votes in Congress, there was pretty much nothing the South could do about it.
    Yes, some northerners were slave owners. At least we agree that the preservation of slavery was a pillar in the southern states platform. And who was it that pointed out that slavery was only just "officially" outlawed a couple years ago in Mississippi? You absolutely cannot say how long that scourge would have continued, it's hypothetical. One things certain, if it had been your ancestors that had suffered the often unbearable oppression of slavery, you'd likely not trivialize the institution as you do presently.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 07-06-15 at 11:05 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yeah? Since when?
    Since they wanted homeland security, the Patriot act, TSA, a way WAY over the top pentagon budget, just to name a few.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yes, some northerners were slave owners. At least we agree that the preservation of slavery was a pillar in the southern states platform. And who was it that pointed out that slavery was only just "officially" outlawed a couple years ago in Mississippi? You absolutely cannot say how long that scourge would have continued, it's hypothetical. One things certain, if it had been your ancestress that had suffered the often unbearable oppression of slavery, you'd likely not trivialize the institution as you do presently.
    So I guess you never understood that even blacks owned slaves also? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms Chew on that food for thought.
    Life is short, ride a horse

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Since they wanted homeland security, the Patriot act, TSA, a way WAY over the top pentagon budget, just to name a few.
    Well, the first two examples you listed don't apply, but you got me on the TSA.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseLoverGirl View Post
    So I guess you never understood that even blacks owned slaves also? Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms Chew on that food for thought.
    Yes. But what's your point, hmm?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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