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Thread: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    Heres an intern who works for the only current black senator

    Byron Thomas Sends Email Asking Staff To Say Pledge of Allegiance | News One
    What does that have to do with anything. I know and have acknowledged that the flag means different things to different people. Only about 70% of blacks view it as a symbol of racism.

    But to say that flag has "always" represented love for the South is just flat out contradicted by historical evidence anyone can find with a two second Google image search.

    Let me google that for you

    Click on images.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Given the fact that the Confederate battle flag was historically the flag of Robert E. Lee's own Army of Northern Virginia, it actually honors him and the men who fought under him more than it does the actual Confederacy itself, or its cause. Again, the simple fact of the matter is that this issue is no where near as cut and dry as people like to make out.
    That's an argument that could have been made in good faith but for the use of that same flag by whites protesting civil rights for blacks in the 50s and 60s. I just don't see how that flag can overcome its use for such an indefensible cause while so many who suffered under Jim Crow are still living.

    Bottom line is this guy just needed one - the sign or the flag. Everyone understands that the guys with him flying the Rebel flag are on his side, and marching against basic civil rights for blacks in their state.

    FP001194.jpg

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's an argument that could have been made in good faith but for the use of that same flag by whites protesting civil rights for blacks in the 50s and 60s. I just don't see how that flag can overcome its use for such an indefensible cause while so many who suffered under Jim Crow are still living.

    Bottom line is this guy just needed one - the sign or the flag. Everyone understands that the guys with him flying the Rebel flag are on his side, and marching against basic civil rights for blacks in their state.

    FP001194.jpg
    The Iron Cross has been adopted by a number of white supremacist and ultra-nationalist groups as well. That doesn't stop it from being a symbol of military honor in German culture.

    The Bundeswehr actually still uses it as their official emblem to this day.


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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yeah, good fellows these.
    ...Let's have a little look at your quotes. That's what a person dedicated to the accurate historical record does.

    This one:

    Look to the South and you who went with us through that land can best say if they have not been fearfully punished. Mourning is in every household, desolation written in broad characters across the whole face of their country, cities in ashes and fields laid waste, their commerce gone, their system of labor annihilated and destroyed. Ruin and poverty and distress everywhere, and now pestilence adding to the very cap sheaf of their stack of misery...Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who left a 60 mile wide, 300 mile long path of death and desolation across GA and up through SC.
    Curiously, cannot be found with an attribution as to where and when he said that. Doesn't that raise flags? All I see is this passed around on some pages on Southern supporting blogs, and never with *where* it came from.

    But why is it after plugging parts of that quote in, the source is not found? Maybe you can help me find an official record of that being an accurate WTS quote. (I'm not doubting that it *may* be...)

    Be a good chap and help me out...

    OOp...UPDATE! I found a source. Finally. One citation from a 1947 book: The South During Reconstruction, 1865-1877

    It notes the quote is from 2 1/2 years after the war -- in an address to former members of his Command -- and I see your sources leave off this important line at the end:


    It was in sympathy to the Southerners, and to the former slaveholders!


    And this quote of yours:

    I have destroyed over 2,000 barns filled with wheat, hay and farming implements; over 70 mills filled with flour and wheat, and have driven in front of the Army over 4,000 head of stock and have killed and issued to the troops not less than 3,000 sheep. Tomorrow I will continue the destruction down to Fisher’s Mill. When this is completed, the Valley from Winchester to Staunton, 92 miles, will have but little in it for man or beast.....from an Oct. 7, 1864 report to Gen. Grant from Gen. Sheridan.
    It is noted it is from a October 7th 1864 Report.

    But, hmmm...what did that report actually say?

    American Civil War: The Definitive Encyclopedia

    https://books.google.com/books?id=9d...epage&q&f=true

    Nothing beyond what that first line says.

    You see, when I see quotes that can only be found on Lost Cause or New-Confederate and/or sympathizing cites, it always raises my hinky meter.

    It should raise yours too.

    Oh, one other thing, don't ever, ever, ever take the word of anything that comes out of the White Nationalist Thomas DiLorenzo's mouth or pen. No reputable historian has an ounce of respect for him, North or South.

    That's where a lot of this mix-mashed, out of context (sometimes wholly fabricated) junk emanates from.

    Now, that is not to say Sherman and the Union Army did not engage in a brutal WAR - as both sides did (with the South instigating it) -- but if you're going to be accurate, at least look to Academic and reliable sources.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    The Iron Cross has been adopted by a number of white supremacist and ultra-nationalist groups as well. That doesn't stop it from being a symbol of military honor in German culture.

    The Bundeswehr actually still uses it as their official emblem to this day.
    The problem is the Rebel flag wasn't just adopted by fringe groups - SC few it over the state capital. Georgia incorporated it into their state flag. Wallace appeared with it in the background while speaking in defense of segregation and white supremacy in Alabama. It was all over the Dixiecrat convention in 1948. These are elected leaders using it as a symbol of defiance against GD yankees and liberals pushing civil rights for blacks.

    It's just how that flag was used. At least, those defending the Rebel flag today have to acknowledge that RECENT history and somehow deal with it.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    That flag is the Dixiecrat flag of segregation not the Confederate flag.
    I wish they would rename my county to Grant county instead o the that loser Lee.
    I'd rather live in a county named after a person of honor than a drunk. Grant was a merciless drunk most of his life. However he did atone for the wrongs he ordered against the South in the end by threatening to leave his government job if the Supreme Court did not give Arlington back to the Lee family
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    ...Let's have a little look at your quotes. That's what a person dedicated to the accurate historical record does.

    This one:



    Curiously, cannot be found with an attribution as to where and when he said that. Doesn't that raise flags? All I see is this passed around on some pages on Southern supporting blogs, and never with *where* it came from.

    But why is it after plugging parts of that quote in, the source is not found? Maybe you can help me find an official record of that being an accurate WTS quote. (I'm not doubting that it *may* be...)

    Be a good chap and help me out...

    OOp...UPDATE! I found a source. Finally. One citation from a 1947 book: The South During Reconstruction, 1865-1877

    It notes the quote is from 2 1/2 years after the war -- in an address to former members of his Command -- and I see your sources leave off this important line at the end:


    It was in sympathy to the Southerners, and to the former slaveholders!


    And this quote of yours:



    It is noted it is from a October 7th 1864 Report.

    But, hmmm...what did that report actually say?

    American Civil War: The Definitive Encyclopedia

    https://books.google.com/books?id=9d...epage&q&f=true

    Nothing beyond what that first line says.

    You see, when I see quotes that can only be found on Lost Cause or New-Confederate and/or sympathizing cites, it always raises my hinky meter.

    It should raise yours too.

    Oh, one other thing, don't ever, ever, ever take the word of anything that comes out of the White Nationalist Thomas DiLorenzo's mouth or pen. No reputable historian has an ounce of respect for him, North or South.

    That's where a lot of this mix-mashed, out of context (sometimes wholly fabricated) junk emanates from.

    Now, that is not to say Sherman and the Union Army did not engage in a brutal WAR - as both sides did (with the South instigating it) -- but if you're going to be accurate, at least look to Academic and reliable sources.
    The perpetrator of the crimes was expressing sympathy for the victims, years after the war. Oh, now that's rich. Targeting civilian food sources to break their spirit and support of their government is not heroic. Sorry to stand in stark disagreement with you on that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The problem is the Rebel flag wasn't just adopted by fringe groups - SC few it over the state capital. Georgia incorporated it into their state flag. Wallace appeared with it in the background while speaking in defense of segregation and white supremacy in Alabama. It was all over the Dixiecrat convention in 1948. These are elected leaders using it as a symbol of defiance against GD yankees and liberals pushing civil rights for blacks.

    It's just how that flag was used. At least, those defending the Rebel flag today have to acknowledge that RECENT history and somehow deal with it.
    And the Iron Cross was used by the Nazis, and the Japan's "Rising Sun" flag (which is actually pretty damn similar to the 'Confederate flag' in terms of cultural significance) was used as the battle flag of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy during WW2.

    Just because bad people may have adopted a symbol at a certain point, doesn't mean that they taint it forever. Symbols are ultimately completely arbitrary. They mean whatever a given people say they mean.

    In this case, the vast majority of Southerners say that, for them, the flag stands simply for Southern culture as a whole, and as a form of memorial for their ancestors who fought and died during the Civil War. There's really no reason not to believe them.

    It's only really non-Southerners, and African Americans looking for an excuse to be offended, who see it otherwise. Frankly, that's just because they're either reading too much into it, or have a negative view of Southern culture to begin with, and are actively trying to impose their own preconceptions upon the flag, while completely ignoring the ways in which the flag's cultural significance has evolved over the course of recent decades.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Because I adore Sherman. He understood what needed to be done to break the will of Southern resistance and shattered the Confederacy. Furthermore his legacy has been clouded by the smears of several generations of Lost Cause historians. Luckily the historical record is increasingly being rectified.
    You mean that scum? With any luck he is being charred in the innermost circle of hell right now and hopefully will be forever. He was pure evil scum who wanted to wipe out as many Southern civilians as possible just because he felt like it
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Such ignorance is unbelievable! I took Civil War History at the University of Houston during my senior year. The U of H is in the South, by the way, and our professor said the one overriding issue was slavery.

    Of course your beliefs and sources are the correct ones and everyone else is wrong.

    You might be able to sell your merchandise as fertilizer but not history.
    I am well aware Houston is in the South. However I also know the climate in colleges and universities today is to whitewash history and turn students communist. Look around its happening everywhere.
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