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Thread: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    And what do you think it is "intended to represent," exactly?

    I saw the interview. He said that, for him, it represented Southern culture and Southern heritage. That's pretty much exactly the same thing it represents for me.
    The "Heritage " it represents is exactly why it is offensive. Anybody that knows its history can see that.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The "Heritage " it represents is exactly why it is offensive. Anybody that knows its history can see that.
    I'm sorry, but not everyone agrees - particularly not those of us who actually had ancestors who fought in the war. The supposed "moral superiority" of the North is overstated (usually by Northerners), and so is the central nature of slavery. The issue was not as cut and dry as - heavily biased - popular culture and political narratives like to make out.

    Again, either way, it is entirely possible to honor Southern soldiers, their efforts, and their sacrifices without necessarily honoring slavery. Southerners have been doing it for 150 years. It's apparently only news to the North and the Far Left.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 07-06-15 at 02:02 AM.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    And what do you think it is "intended to represent," exactly?
    Well, since it is a battle flag, and the Confederates were battling exclusively for the right to keep black people as property, I'd say the meaning is pretty clear. Otherwise, what part of Southern heritage do you think the flag represents?

    I saw the interview. He said that, for him, it represented Southern culture and Southern heritage. That's pretty much exactly the same thing it represents for me.
    No, he said that his ancestor was a cook for the Confederates, and after the war was over his ancestor received a pension. And he refuses to turn his back on that. So his interpretation of the flag is wildly different from basically 99.99% of other people.


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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Well, since it is a battle flag, and the Confederates were battling exclusively for the right to keep black people as property,
    And you're wrong right out of the gate. The Confederates were primarily battling for their perceived Constitutional right to political and economic self-determination. Slavery was simply one aspect of that, and even then, only really because the Southern economy was wholly dependent upon it.

    A great many Confederates - such as Robert E. Lee - were actually opposed to slavery, and planned to try and gradually phase it out if the South had won the war.

    No, he said that his ancestor was a cook for the Confederates, and after the war was over his ancestor received a pension. And he refuses to turn his back on that. So his interpretation of the flag is wildly different from basically 99.99% of other people.

    Yes, and?

    Some of my ancestors fought for the Confederacy as well. Most white Southerners have someone in their family line who did. That is the primary reason why we, and Southern culture in general, have an attachment to the battle flag.

    His reasons are not any different than those put forward by the vast majority of people who do not oppose the flag's presence. For most of us, it is a symbol of heritage, not hate.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    And you're wrong right out of the gate. The Confederates were primarily battling for their perceived Constitutional right to political and economic self-determination. Slavery was simply one aspect of that, and even then, only really because the Southern economy was wholly dependent upon it.
    The political and economic self-determination of owning slaves. Slavery was not only the primary reason for secession, it was explicitly stated by every state which joined the Confederacy.



    Some of my ancestors fought for the Confederacy as well. Most white Southerners have someone in their family line who did. That is the primary reason why we, and Southern culture in general, have an attachment to the battle flag.
    I don't understand. If my grandfather fought for the Nazis, I wouldn't be proud. At the same time, I wouldn't be ashamed. Because I had no say in the matter. If I chose to fly the Nazi flag in honor of what my grandfather fought for, that is a choice -- and a very bad one.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    What does it stand for then? The South lost the Civil war. It is the flag of treasonous losers if it is not the flag of the segregationist Dixiecrats . This is what a historian says.



    The HISTORY of the flag is what makes it offensive.
    The flag of my state depicts a slave owning southerner front and center, what happens when some special interest group claims they feel hatred visiting the capitol dome?

    If history (and not current meaning) is what makes things offensive this becomes a valid question
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    All this overblown flag business will pass when America has something else to think about.

    I don't like the Confederate flag.

    But if people want to fly it - go ahead...I really do not much care.

    It's just a flag.

    And flags literally mean (practically) nothing to me...ALL flags.
    Last edited by DA60; 07-06-15 at 02:22 AM.
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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    The political and economic self-determination of owning slaves.
    I'm sorry, but no. That's simply wrong. Southern soldiers didn't charge into battle with the thought of preserving some rich man's ability to own slaves on their minds.

    They were sold the war on the premise of state's rights, and independence. The ability to deal with slavery as the states saw fit simply happened to be one of those rights.

    Besides, both North and South owned slaves for the duration of the war, and both sides generally regarded African Americans as being "inferior." The Emancipation Proclamation didn't even come into play until two years into the conflict. Before that point, the Union was simply fighting to preserve it's territory.

    I don't understand. If my grandfather fought for the Nazis, I wouldn't be proud. At the same time, I wouldn't be ashamed. Because I had no say in the matter. If I chose to fly the Nazi flag in honor of what my grandfather fought for, that is a choice -- and a very bad one.
    A) The Confederates weren't the freaking Nazis. That's simply the Far Left pulling a melodramatic Godwin.

    B) It was 150 years ago. Lighten up.

    The Germans still pay homage to the Iron Cross in spite of it being used in both WW1 and WW2. The Japanese still fly the Rising Sun flag which was carried into battle by the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy. All of those regimes were responsible for things quite a bit more heinous than anything in which the C.S.A. was ever involved.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 07-06-15 at 02:24 AM.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    and Abe was killed a few days after the war ended.

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    Re: Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

    Quote Originally Posted by JC Callender View Post
    Anyone who chose to use that flag as a way to denote simple southern life did so foolishly since it's basically the battle flag for slavery. It's time now to admit that, put the flag away, and move forward.
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