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Thread: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Where do you get the idea they're wealthy? They're being asked to go from a 700 Euros a month pension to three hundred. The debt incurred by the oligarchs has been socialised onto the poor.

    The Germans were lending them "money" in the form of German goods which let the Germans live high on the hog.
    I didn't say anybody was wealthy. The person to whom I responded said that the Greeks want neither to abandon the Euro nor to reduce government spending. That isn't an option just like being wealthy without doing anything about it. If Germans live high on the hog then I salute them. Greece is in serious trouble. Let it be a lesson to us.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Seems to me their options are follow the limits and guidelines proposed by the people that are bailing you out. AGAIN...

    or...

    refuse and keep doing the same things that have caused your country to become economically insolvent.

    Well...gosh...thats a no brainer.

    The EU should happily acknowledge their results.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Just as soon as germany pays for the damage it wrought in greece in ww2, i will listen to its lectures on fiscal responsibility
    Please explain to us how that is even remotely relevant to the conversation we are having.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The ECB has the first move so to speak. We'll learn soon whether or not it has increased its ELA financing to Greece's banks. I don't think it will withdraw its support unless Greece misses its payment to the central bank later this month. It could maintain the current level of support, meaning the Greek banking holiday and capital controls persist. Greece may then issue some kind of scrip currency or IOUs.
    Well, I think it's much more likely that the first move will be to reschedule discussions and for the Troika to signal that it is prepared to countenance some form of restructuring. I suppose that a refusal of the ECB to increase its ELA would give the opposite message loudly enough, but I have a feeling the Troika side might be feeling a little more flexible tomorrow.
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    The situation/disaster in Greece concludes a failed classical experiment in Socialism.

    The concept sounded swell. Kumbaya. But it doesn't translate well to reality.


    The vote today of "no" just simplifies things for the EU. Greece can work things out on it's own....

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Please explain to us how that is even remotely relevant to the conversation we are having.
    greek politicians announced they would not repay their debt until germany paid for war damages, which seems quite fair to me

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Seems to me their options are follow the limits and guidelines proposed by the people that are bailing you out. AGAIN...

    or...

    refuse and keep doing the same things that have caused your country to become economically insolvent.

    Well...gosh...thats a no brainer.

    The EU should happily acknowledge their results.
    Given that the financial consequences for Germany, France, the ECB, IMF and even Britain might be quite dire in the event of a Grexit, they'll be well advised to restructure the debt - it'll work out infinitely cheaper in the long-run.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    greek politicians announced they would not repay their debt until germany paid for war damages, which seems quite fair to me
    If that was a condition when the loan was made, i agree.

    If not then they owe the money. You don't get to make **** up on the fly.....

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    That's not true. There are 9 EU members that are not members of the Eurozone. There is no requirement for all EU members to be members of the Eurozone, even if they do fulfil the criteria. Greece can't be formally expelled, but a withdrawal of emergency liquidity support will make that a de facto expulsion.
    You are misinformed and this is caused by your own confusion. Membership in the EU, or application of it, does not automatically require entry into the € once that membership is granted.

    That doesn't mean you can leave the currency zone, once inside it and at the same time retain EU membership.

    Of course, for this as for so many other issues, no provision was ever instituted for this eventuality. So, barring a rewrite of the whole charter (not impossible) the reverse principle of entry (for both) will need to apply.

    As I said.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by pragmatic View Post
    If that was a condition when the loan was made, i agree.

    If not then they owe the money. You don't get to make **** up on the fly.....
    did germany ask permission before invading greece and wrecking it to the tune of 280 billion euros? Greece not repaying the debt is simply a way of forcing germany to pay for damages it would otherwise never pay

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