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Thread: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

  1. #31
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Greece is like the spoiled child of privilege. Always having mommy and daddy pay the way for their indulgent lifestyle. Time to kick the ingrates out of the house and let them sink or swim on their own. Canada only supports the IMF to a small amount but I'd be opposed to even one more penny going to prop up these idiots. As noted this morning, Greece has an economy about the size of South Carolina - if they fail, big deal - a few days of yoyoing on the stock market and then forgotten. Maybe then, with their tail between their legs, they'll come to their senses and pay the piper for their decades of indulgence.

    And let's not forget, there's Portugal, and Italy, perhaps Spain, all lining up behind Greece waiting to see the outcome and what it will cost them going forward. If you cave into the first ransom holder, you lose the rest too. Cut them off now and cast them adrift.
    This is comically hilarious. I wonder if people will utter "Greece's economy is too big to fail". The is economic terrorism just like what we had here in this country. Our politicians caved and gave in to their campaign donors. I wonder if Greece has the same clout?
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    For now it becomes a game of political clout. Greece is not going to voluntarily leave the EU/Euro so it would take a political effort by several other members to force the issue and we not not too confident there is enough political pressure to force Greece out.

    Assuming the referendum does fail, we are back to negotiations. Technically speaking Greece is already in default on an IMF payment, for however long that continues and/or how many more payments are missed is anyone's guess but the further we go the more pressure there is to find some solution or have it all break down.

    Greece wants to continue with fiscal irresponsibility and have other member nations forgive them for it. Several others, mostly lead by Germany, are against it. They want Greece to submit to fiscal / economic policy reforms and changes to pension plans in exchange for some deal.

    From my chair a "no" vote does not change the basic roadblock, it is not all of a sudden going to mean Greece can continue with fiscal irresponsibility and have no repercussions for it.
    Just as soon as germany pays for the damage it wrought in greece in ww2, i will listen to its lectures on fiscal responsibility

  3. #33
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    They're not going to withdraw, not from the Eurozone - although they can be ejected - nor from the EU, from which they cannot be ejected.
    Rubbish, there's no provision for kicking any €-country out of the currency once it's in.

    Only way out is leaving of own accord which would also necessitate leaving the EU altogether.

    It's the reverse principle of having to be a member in order to apply for entry into the currency.

  4. #34
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    And yet the Troika rejected it, or rather said that it would only consider it if the referendum was called off. Well, like the offer on which the referendum was based, I'd say that today's result means that the letter is no longer on the table.
    They actually said they would not consider anything until the referendum was over, not called off. And here we now are.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post
    Rubbish, there's no provision for kicking any €-country out of the currency once it's in.

    Only way out is leaving of own accord which would also necessitate leaving the EU altogether.
    That's not true. There are 9 EU members that are not members of the Eurozone. There is no requirement for all EU members to be members of the Eurozone, even if they do fulfil the criteria. Greece can't be formally expelled, but a withdrawal of emergency liquidity support will make that a de facto expulsion.
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    They actually said they would not consider anything until the referendum was over, not called off. And here we now are.
    Actually, you're right. I was reading about it but those calling for the scrapping of the referendum were unnamed 'sources close to the Troika negotiating team', so that wasn't the position.

    Yes, that is that. Let's see what the Troika do next. Apparently Tsipras has been on the phone to relevant people for the past 3 hours.
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The Greek people don't want to leave the Euro, but they won't take any more of Europe's lethal medicine either.
    I'd like to be wealthy without doing anything about it. Things don't work that way. The Greeks can't keep spending the Germans' money forever. They will be in for some hard times very quickly. We must all deal with the consequences of what we do. Greece lied in order to join the EU and has engaged in incompetent fiscal policy. It's time to pay the piper.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    This is comically hilarious. I wonder if people will utter "Greece's economy is too big to fail". The is economic terrorism just like what we had here in this country. Our politicians caved and gave in to their campaign donors. I wonder if Greece has the same clout?
    I sure hope not, but we'll see. I'm betting that Angela Merkel isn't going to cave to Greek intransigence, but the IMF might. If the Greeks couldn't find the $1.7 billion payment they owed earlier this week, and have no intention of doing what is necessary to reach solvency, why would anyone be idiotic enough to forward another $50 some billion to them so they can remain solvent for another 4 years living off taxpayers in other countries.
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    I'd like to be wealthy without doing anything about it. Things don't work that way. The Greeks can't keep spending the Germans' money forever. They will be in for some hard times very quickly. We must all deal with the consequences of what we do. Greece lied in order to join the EU and has engaged in incompetent fiscal policy. It's time to pay the piper.
    Where do you get the idea they're wealthy? They're being asked to go from a 700 Euros a month pension to three hundred. The debt incurred by the oligarchs has been socialised onto the poor.

    The Germans were lending them "money" in the form of German goods which let the Germans live high on the hog.
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Let's see what the Troika do next. Apparently Tsipras has been on the phone to relevant people for the past 3 hours.
    The ECB has the first move so to speak. We'll learn soon whether or not it has increased its ELA financing to Greece's banks. I don't think it will withdraw its support unless Greece misses its payment to the central bank later this month. It could maintain the current level of support, meaning the Greek banking holiday and capital controls persist. Greece may then issue some kind of scrip currency or IOUs.

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