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Thread: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    [QUOTE=Ben K.;1064790848]Correct, nothing has changed. Maybe they proceed with the letter of near capitulation sent by Tsipras early last week. I doubt we'll see a referendum on that.[/QUOTE

    Greetings, Ben K.

    Perhaps I'm reading this "no" vote incorrectly, but it doesn't look as if Greece capitulated at all. They just don't have the money to pay their bill without borrowing more from the same people they owe. Weird! If talks do begin anew, we'll soon know what the final terms are.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Correct, nothing has changed. Maybe they proceed with the letter of near capitulation sent by Tsipras early last week. I doubt we'll see a referendum on that.
    There's no way Tsipras is going to return to that position. The Troika rejected it, and the Greek people have rejected the idea of capitulating to unreasonable creditor conditions.

    I think everyone, on both sides, recognise that the Tsipras letter was a mistake. The referendum result shows that the Greeks are not going to accept further austerity-based solutions.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    There's no way Tsipras is going to return to that position. The Troika rejected it, and the Greek people have rejected the idea of capitulating to unreasonable creditor conditions.

    I think everyone, on both sides, recognise that the Tsipras letter was a mistake. The referendum result shows that the Greeks are not going to accept further austerity-based solutions.
    The referendum showed that they rejected the previous deal. The election of Syriza showed they rejected austerity (which should have been the end of it). What do you think happens if the trokia meets the conditions of that letter halfway? Do you expect another referendum?

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Whoa!

    I had a gut feeling they were going to secede.

    This is going to be hella' interesting to watch!
    Ouch!


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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    The Greek government wouldn't accept it last week, hence the referendum. The Greek people have now positively rejected it. The ball is now in the creditors' court. Are they going to withdraw all emergency support and force the Greeks out of the eurozone? Or are they going to negotiate a realistic and much improved offer which includes debt relief.

    The head of the German central bank has warned the German government that Grexit would cost the German economy tens of billions of Euros. They have created an emergency fund to cover that eventuality, but it only contains €14 billion, a fraction of what would be needed to avoid serious consequences for the German economy.

    Here's an even stronger warning.

    Those scenarios make the obvious point that forcing a Grexit would cost the rest of the Eurozone far, far more than it would have to commit by restructuring the Greek debt.
    Thank you.
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Tsipras spoke out against the media, which has historically been granted tax breaks by past PASOK and ND governments and is thus pro-austerity, for giving more coverage to the yes side of the referendum. I wonder what the result would've looked like with more unbiased media coverage.

    It seems like EU members are sending very mixed messages on what the results of the referendum means. Regardless, SYRIZA has repeatedly spoken against leaving the Euro, and as Andalablue stated, a Grexit would clearly have negative consequences for everyone involved. Hopefully, this will result in negotiations resuming with the EU more open-minded to ending austerity.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    The referendum showed that they rejected the previous deal. The election of Syriza showed they rejected austerity (which should have been the end of it). What do you think happens if the trokia meets the conditions of that letter halfway? Do you expect another referendum?
    I'm sure the Greeks would be very happy to see some movement from the Troika side. Whether they'd think it sufficient, who knows? If the Troika did make some movement, it would demonstrate that their refusal to negotiate with the Syriza government from the start was a political decision, not an economic one. Would another referendum be likely? I doubt it. Tsipras has a double mandate , one for his government, the other for his negotiating strategy. He couldn't be in a stronger position to take the big decisions now.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    [QUOTE=polgara;1064790886]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Correct, nothing has changed. Maybe they proceed with the letter of near capitulation sent by Tsipras early last week. I doubt we'll see a referendum on that.[/QUOTE

    Greetings, Ben K.

    Perhaps I'm reading this "no" vote incorrectly, but it doesn't look as if Greece capitulated at all. They just don't have the money to pay their bill without borrowing more from the same people they owe. Weird! If talks do begin anew, we'll soon know what the final terms are.
    Hi.

    Presumably, this would serve the basis of progressing from the referendum (if the troika chooses to do deal further with the Greeks).

    http://blogs.ft.com/brusselsblog/201...-major-points/

    In it, Tsipras conceded nearly everything that they had a vote on.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The Greek people don't want to leave the Euro, but they won't take any more of Europe's lethal medicine either.
    They gotta play the guitar on the MTV now





    yeah, this one is politically correct now as well. Apparently you can write "fagot" but you can't say it.

    Lord give me strength

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    In it, Tsipras conceded nearly everything that they had a vote on.
    And yet the Troika rejected it, or rather said that it would only consider it if the referendum was called off. Well, like the offer on which the referendum was based, I'd say that today's result means that the letter is no longer on the table.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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