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Thread: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

  1. #131
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagos View Post
    Preemptive move by him to avoid getting fired.

    What is drowned by all the current and recent brouhaha is that Syriza is pretty rifted. It's not a particularly homogeneous bunch, merely a kind of roof organization under which all sorts of little camps have gathered.

    Many on the side of the lenders have expressed their distaste of him as a person, caused by his slanderous invective on practically all lenders. That may have influenced the Greek decision to get rid of him as a hindrance to getting the lenders back to the table, Varoufakis having served his purpose as an uncompromising brick wall to get the Greek position across (they think) but now not being what is needed.

    Frankly, IF he is/was such a problem to the lenders' side, then there's a lot of amateurism involved. When you do business you do business with anybody. You know that the high spirits and the rhetorics of campaigning have nothing to do with the everyday common reality that is to follow.

    More likely he's been recognized as being so uncompromising that sending him to a summit where compromise is the only solution would be a hindrance more than anything.

    That's all assuming there will be any compromise at all, something I seriously doubt.
    Not so sure. Dude comes out unscathed from the the outcome of a largely symbolic referendum.

    He can now do speaking tours and write op eds for the guardian/nyt without being discredited about the practical meaning of the referendums outcome. I'd rather be him than anyone else in government.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Lol that's so true. I realized that last night.

    on second thought it's kind of a way for him to say his hands are tied.

    I suppose it's not great to devalue referendums like this.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
    Lol that's so true. I realized that last night.

    on second thought it's kind of a way for him to say his hands are tied.

    I suppose it's not great to devalue referendums like this.
    I think referendums are great. If there's a tangible outcome (lower the voting age, leave/join a currency ).

    Symbolic ones leave me less than impressed.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    Not so sure. Dude comes out unscathed from the the outcome of a largely symbolic referendum.

    He can now do speaking tours and write op eds for the guardian/nyt without being discredited about the practical meaning of the referendums outcome. I'd rather be him than anyone else in government.
    Good luck to him where I'm concerned.

    This isn't about how to bolster either ego or personal gain or both though.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Latest developments following the Greek referendum:

    1. A rather muted financial market reaction. S&P 500: -0.39%; FTSE: -0.76%; DAX: -1.52%; CAC: -2.01%.
    2. The Greek Prime Minister requested an increase in the ELA, but the ECB maintained the current level.
    3. France and Germany urged Greece to submit "serious" proposals for discussion. Greece reportedly will submit a new proposal tomorrow.

    At present, there's no indication that the EU/ECB/IMF will offer debt relief immediately. Given information on the German Chancellor's website and comments from German officials, it appears that somewhat but not substantially modified terms might be acceptable. If so, there may be a meaningful gap between what Greece proposes tomorrow and what the EU/ECB/IMF will accept. Whether the gap will be sufficiently narrow to restart talks and lead to the ECB's increasing the ELA tomorrow or Wednesday remains to be seen.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    The referendum put to test a detailed proposal that wasn't even on the table any longer. It was a political coup. Now, re-negotiation would be legit if the initial proposal is modified slightly in favor of Greece, because if the PM goes for it, he wouldn't be technically disavowing his voters because it would be a different proposal than the one voted down.

    So, a save-facing strategy for all involved may still be in the works.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    The referendum put to test a detailed proposal that wasn't even on the table any longer. It was a political coup. Now, re-negotiation would be legit if the initial proposal is modified slightly in favor of Greece, because if the PM goes for it, he wouldn't be technically disavowing his voters because it would be a different proposal than the one voted down.

    So, a save-facing strategy for all involved may still be in the works.
    The referendum was Tsipras's cowardly attempt of pushing off his responsibility as a leader on the people of Greece.

    Remember, they've already voted.

    That way if they voted No and worse came to worse ( and it will ) he can claim say " dont blame me, you people voted for this "

    Socialist coward.

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The referendum was Tsipras's cowardly attempt of pushing off his responsibility as a leader on the people of Greece.

    Remember, they've already voted.
    First time, he won 36%. This time he won 62%.

    Good move, or what?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    First time, he won 36%. This time he won 62%.

    Good move, or what?
    Him " winning " isn't good for anyone actually.

    He's a Socialist coward, a activist who played on the naivete of people who have been dependant so long they think they're owed something just for existing.

  10. #140
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    Re: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatNews2night View Post
    If you have a debt and deficit problem one of the remedies is to devalue your currency so that you get more competitive in exports and you end up turning a surplus. If you are in a currency union you can't do that. The Euro project was built on the notion that it was irrevocable. Now if Greece exits, when other countries are in trouble and austerity measures are recommended, they will know that there is another option. That's what can start a domino effect.

    The problem with Grexit is political more than economic. Greece is a tiny fraction of the European GDP and its debt won't plunge the whole of Europe in a huge depression like you said. The problem is that this plays into Putin's hand and undermines European unity.
    well there is a difference between devaluing your currency and letting it drop off the face of the earth.defaulting on their debt and issuing their own currency would lead to hyper inflation,simply due to the fact of their previous debts went unpaid.it would not be forever but they would suffer a massive depression in the near term until their new fiat currency gains recognition and previous fiscal situations become forgotten.


    fyi i can not name a country that has greatly benefitted from devaluing its currency,its like trading in a manager job at 80k for 8 jobs at 10k and saying the economy flourished.exports increase but wealth does not,infact it decreases buying power in favor of jobs,and nearly every single country that is third world has a low value currency.


    devaluation is basically making a country poor for the sake of creating jobs,china,india,south america etc have not flourished from low value currency.
    “You can lead a horse to water, but it is probably crowded with all those people you taught to fish.”

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