Thread: Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

Originally Posted by Andalublue

I know what a mantra is, being a Buddhist and all, but I don't see what mantra it is you're referring to, since I've repeated nothing.

It's more like the attitude.

Bad Germany, bad Troika, bad greedy banks, everyone having lived it up at the expense of somebody they brought to his (their/her) knees first so that they could.

There is NObody without blemish in this whole sordid affair, some crooked, some stupid, some both.

Falling for this foul Syriza propaganda because of one's own political fealty is only marginally better than being prone to the equally "ideologized" wingnut ranting of the likes of you-know-who.

Facts (truth if you like) have long since become primary casualties.

In this one everybody is lying. Everybody to their friends, their voters, their party colleagues that are in support and their party colleagues that are in opposition. To their partners in support and to their partners in secret pursuit of own agenda.

And, sticking to the conflict scenario, to their enemy of course and about him.

This is going to end badly. For everybody but most of all for Greece.

That's the extent of MY partisanship.

Originally Posted by Phys251

Damn, Greek citizens, you guys have some ****ing balls of STEEL!!

don't forget the brains of mush, at least with over 60 pct.

Originally Posted by Phys251

LOL, the Greeks had only three options:

1. Let the severe austerity destroy what's left of their fragile economy.
2. Suffer a head-on collision in a game of chicken with the IMF.
3. Show the world that they're a hostage that is no longer afraid to commit suicide, thus forcing far gentler terms at the bargaining table.

Today, the Greeks soundly rejected option #1, banked on the hopes of #3, and left the door open to #2. If Greece defaults, it's gonna send shock waves throughout the world. Even as we speak, the Asian markets are in an uproar, and no doubt those shock waves will spread to European and then American markets when they open tomorrow.

Be afraid, rich elite! The people are starting to rise up!

yeah well, marxist paroles are going to get you and the Greeks about as far as the rest of your post. That last sentence is about as silly as it can get in this issue of abundant silliness.

But thanks for your insightful analysis of what's been achieved or going to be.

It'll be interesting to see the rich elitist citizens of, Romania, Lithuania, Slovakia and so on tell their national parliaments to go shove it, when those ask for a mandate to keep giving to a country richer than theirs.

That just shows the scope of your ignorance.

Originally Posted by Ahlevah

Why is it up to the rest of Europe to support a Greek welfare state? Bernie mentions massive income inequality in the world. Aren't there people poorer than Greeks? Why not help them instead? I wonder if Bernie's going to put his money where his mouth is and send the Greeks a check.

Good point on people far poorer.

Originally Posted by Manc Skipper

You would also be ignoring the fact that even the IMF admits that the austerity "punishment" doled out to the Greeks for the last five years was wrong.

yeah, that requires address in whatever negotiations still to come.

You have a credibility problem when demanding restructuring and not even being capable of properly structuring your own aid.

It shouldn't detract from Greece having revoked virtually all attempts as of January to follow that demand. But that shouldn't detract from the basic loan faults either.

Originally Posted by Andalublue

You clearly haven't been paying attention. You only have to spend about 20 minutes with a Greek guy in a bar for the topic of how much the Germans still owe them to raise its head. When was the last time you went out drinking in Greece? And you really never heard it mentioned? Really?

Last time I went out drinking in Greece and this topic came up was about 25 years ago (I've been countless times since but not with this item being addressed). I didn't argue anything either way, not having any card in that game, but there was a lively discussions among Greeks, with about half arguing to stop dragging up the past and the other arguing that they're still owed.

German investments in the country also came up but not with those that still felt owed.

Of course nobody invests anywhere out of sheer humanitarian considerations, making a win is the prime consideration. But as I said elsewhere, 70 years or a couple of hundred, there shouldn't be any difference when one demands what others have taken in the course of history. By that logic.

The so offended incidentally also held dreams of getting Anatolia back.

Originally Posted by beerftw

i dont think greece falling out of the eurozone would encourage other countries. as it currently stands,greece dropping out of the eurozone would be far more damaging to their economy than even the most extreme forms of austerity.

the eurozone would suffer credibility if greece left,and would also suffer credibility if they dropped greeces debt.it is a lose lose situation for both sides,but for greece dropping out of the eurozone would lead to an epic depression,one which will take years maybe even a decade to recover from.

If you have a debt and deficit problem one of the remedies is to devalue your currency so that you get more competitive in exports and you end up turning a surplus. If you are in a currency union you can't do that. The Euro project was built on the notion that it was irrevocable. Now if Greece exits, when other countries are in trouble and austerity measures are recommended, they will know that there is another option. That's what can start a domino effect.

The problem with Grexit is political more than economic. Greece is a tiny fraction of the European GDP and its debt won't plunge the whole of Europe in a huge depression like you said. The problem is that this plays into Putin's hand and undermines European unity.