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Thread: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post

    My problem with this is that the arrest was not really justified, at least by the evidence in this video.

    Under New York law a citizen is not required to present any document of identification unless he is driving a motor vehicle during a traffic stop. He must only verbally identify himself. Even so, the officer had no right to retain the citizen's identification; he did so in order to keep the citizen there. Note that only after confiscation of the ID, during subsequent conversation, does the officer finally state that he trying to arrest the citizen.

    Next, the arrest was for possession of a knife. In New York per Penal Law Section 265.01, it is a Class A misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail to knowingly possess a gravity knife. Per Penal Law Section 265.00[5] a gravity knife is “any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked into place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.” The article about the video indicates the witness who filmed it says the citizen had an ordinary pocket knife.

    But in New York City the majority of arrests for "gravity knives" have been for pocket knives (as exemplified by this video). Pocket knives contain blades which fold out of the handle like a Swiss Army knife. You can't just flip them open like a gravity knife, you have to pull them open. They are not against the law, but NYC has interpreted the law to include pocket knives.

    HOWEVER, the act of resisting arrest was wrong.

    The police officer's use of force is authorized under Penal Law Section 35.05 conduct which would otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal when such conduct is performed by a public servant in the reasonable exercise of his official powers, duties or functions. The function, in this situation, was attempting to arrest the citizen.

    What should have happened? The citizen should have kept his mouth shut except to identify himself and then ask if he was under arrest. If the answer was no, he should have asked if he was being detained. If the answer was yes, then he should have stayed silent except to repeat asking periodically if he was free to go. If the officer did a Terry frisk and found a pocket knife, no amount of talking would prevent the arrest in NYC, and keeping silent remains the best bet except to immediately ask for a lawyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    People have been shot for less.
    The officer's use of force here was in keeping with the law. Shooting a citizen under these circumstance would NOT have been justified. The citizen did not pose a threat of deadly force, so there was no reason for an office to use deadly force.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-03-15 at 05:17 PM.
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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You mean maybe she didn't do anything because the guy was big and she looked like a runt? Like he could have flicked her into the Hudson River with his right pinkie?
    Lets be honest, barring her gun or other device, she'd have her butt handed to her.

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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You didn't get that was sarcasm, really? I love sarcasm and if you haven't noticed I use it all the time. It's my favorite service to provide people on this forum.
    Oh...sarcasm...okay. Perhaps you don't know that sarcasm doesn't come through well in a textual format such as an online forum. That's why we have cool little emoticons. You should use them...or maybe use [/s]. That'll work, too.
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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I think that female cop was doing the right thing...staying away from the guy while he was uncontrolled.
    I visited a message board supposedly dedicated to letting cops rant anonymously. Of course, I can't verify that any of these people are actually in law enforcement, but the comments were entertaining nonetheless:

    The female should be forced to resign for incompetence. What precinct was this?
    Good thing the Male Officer is fit and well put together. Knowing he had a useless partner he didn't bring the fight to the ground.
    Thank God that female was there to back him up. S M H
    I'm very proud of the male officer, who obviously has trained in self defense, simply judging by his footwork and some nice right crosses....I have no comment on his nearly invisible partner.
    Male OFFICER did a GREAT job. He kept a good offense going but maintained distance at the same time. He knew he couldn't get into a ground fight with the animal and leave himself exposed to the gang around him, and he also knew he was fighting ALL ALONE
    The female officer should be immediately sent to one of Julian's Zumba classes!
    The male cop should be brought up on charges for engaging himself when he knew his partner was useless.
    What a disgrace, and even the other gals that showed up did NOTHING !
    So, fellas, tell us how you really feel about the female partner. And that was only some of what was on the first page.

    VIDEO: Fight between MOS and Perp in THEE RANT Forum
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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    My problem with this is that the arrest was not really justified, at least by the evidence in this video.
    Okay, so you're relying on the friend's characterization of the knife as a "pocket knife" and not one that was illegal for whatever reason. For you to conclude that the knife was legal, therefore presumably making the initial attempt to arrest the man unjustified, in legal parlance aren't you "assuming facts not in evidence"?
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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Okay, so you're relying on the friend's characterization of the knife as a "pocket knife" and not one that was illegal for whatever reason. For you to conclude that the knife was legal, therefore presumably making the initial arrest unjustified, in legal parlance aren't you "assuming facts not in evidence"?
    No, I am relying on what I saw in the video. See?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    My problem with this is that the arrest was not really justified, at least by the evidence in this video.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    I visited a message board supposedly dedicated to letting cops rant anonymously. Of course, I can't verify that any of these people are actually in law enforcement, but the comments were entertaining nonetheless:

















    So, fellas, tell us how you really feel about the female partner. And that was only some of what was on the first page.

    VIDEO: Fight between MOS and Perp in THEE RANT Forum
    I don't care to get into it about the female cop. That site you linked appears have a lot of statements from seasoned officers and ex-officers. I won't gainsay them. Maybe there was action that female cop could have taken.

    The interesting thing for me is from my experiences in the Army when they started allowing female soldiers in a lot of MOS's. I was a mechanic in a trucking unit and I'll never forget seeing one driver manhandle a spare tire that was almost as tall as she was and outweighed her by a factor of at least three.

    Some women have it and some don't. Maybe that female cop in the video knew she didn't have it. Maybe it's better she kept out of the way. Maybe that burly cop will request a new partner. They can sort it out.
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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    To me, this statement by anyonmus cops is part of the problem.

    "Male OFFICER did a GREAT job. He kept a good offense going but maintained distance at the same time. He knew he couldn't get into a ground fight with the animal and leave himself exposed to the gang around him, and he also knew he was fighting ALL ALONE"

    For one, why would he refer to this guy as an animal? If a cop thinks the people that he is sworn to protect and serve are animals....he has little to no respect for those same people. Second, what "gang" is he referring to. I only watched the video once but I don't remember seeing a "gang" of people around. Except for the "gang" of cops that showed up.

    I feel sorry for the people that are in that anonymous cops beat. I hope they are not black.

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    Re: Video Shows Man Getting Punched by Cop After Resisting Arrest in Harlem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Okay, so you're relying on the friend's characterization of the knife as a "pocket knife" and not one that was illegal for whatever reason. For you to conclude that the knife was legal, therefore presumably making the initial attempt to arrest the man unjustified, in legal parlance aren't you "assuming facts not in evidence"?
    Under the Second Amendment, there is no reason for a knife to be illegal. You have a right to be armed, and nowhere does it say that it must be a firearm.


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    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    I smell hosiery....
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