Thread: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

Originally Posted by Crovax

You are using mans laws to decide what God's law means that is an exercise in futility

and about the vegetarian thing,

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. -Genesis 9:3

No. I'm pointing out the inconsistencies. You have still failed to point out where there is any agreement on what is or is not a violation of "thou shalt not kill/murder". Heck, the various Bible translations can't even get into agreement on what it should say, kill or murder.

Originally Posted by Henrin

His teachings are in the bible. How do you follow the teachings of Jesus without following the bible? Is there some other source of his teachings that I don't know about that somehow trumps the bible?

Some of his teachings are claimed to be in the Bible. That doesn't mean that someone cannot believe that there are more, nor that someone can't believe that some of those contained within the Bible are not wrong. Jesus never said the Bible was inspired by God. He couldn't because the Bible didn't exist in his time. So someone could believe that following Jesus, as much as they can find that they trust, is what God wants without believing that all or even most of the Bible is the word of God.

Originally Posted by Crovax

Just like there is plenty of room for politicians do debate the meaning of "is", but only the morally bankrupt ones will do it. Its very clear in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman. If you dont like that fine, but its not following the Bible under any stretch of the imagination.

and perhaps you put that first whereas other christian sects put love thy neighbor first. you aint god of christianity, so some sects can be all anti-gay and others will br pro-love and within the christian architecture all can exist.

Originally Posted by Deuce

Old Testament clearly does not see abortion as murder, is there something in the New Testament that changes this? I'm not familiar with the specifics on this one.

Abortion is not a word used in the Bible or other ancient text.

However, it expressly condemns the killing of the innocent. in both Testaments.

Does the Bible prohibit abortion? Abortion in the Bible and Church history

Originally Posted by shrubnose

"Man has created God in his own image: Intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent." ~ Marie

Read all about it in the Old Testament. Lots of intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent scripture there. If you try doing some of the things that it advocates in the USA you'll get locked up.




"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

Would that be the White Anglo-Saxon straight men and women? Since we're accused of pretty much all the ills of society....

Originally Posted by Ikari

Yeah, seems there is plenty of room for interpretation and practice within the many Christian sects.

Only God knows.

Originally Posted by sangha

The word is "yatsa" which literally means to "lose her offspring" - it obviously includes miscarriages. It does not use shacho because miscarriage is not the only possible consequence of an assault on a pregnant woman

The term "yatsa" doesn't mean "to lose her offspring" it means "to go out, to go forth". It certainly doesn't mean a dead child, it is simply meant to refer to the process going out, to include the process of childbirth - it is used, for example, to describe the live births of Esau and Jacob (Genesis 25:25-26). It is used 1,061 times in the Hebrew texts and is never used to mean miscarriage, except apparently this one time, where you are insisting that it's meaning has somehow magically and temporarily changed.

The word for "stillborn child" is "nephel" (Job 3:16, Eccl. 6:3-4, Psalms 58:8). The word for abortion or to cause miscarriage, is "shachol" (Genesis 31:38, Job 21:10, etc.) and is used by the author to mean miscarriage when he discusses miscarriage two chapters later (Exodus 23:26). The word used here is a noun form of a verb (yeled) that means "to bring forth children" and is used to refer to live births in the Old Testament (ex: Gen 21:8, Exodus 2:3, Ruth 4:16, Isaiah 9:6), including in the exact same chapter (Exodus 21:4).


Again, you are attempting to add in the term miscarriage when it was available the author, deliberately excluded by the author, and when the surrounding text indicates would have been antithetical to the intent of the author.