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Thread: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

  1. #241
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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Murder is based on laws. So then if there are no laws against killing someone, then you aren't breaking that Commandment.
    So your think that if there is no law against something then it is not a sin in the Bible?

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    So your think that if there is no law against something then it is not a sin in the Bible?
    Not what I said. I was saying that "thou shalt not kill/murder" can be interpreted many different ways since it is so broad and does not give us any indication of where the lines are drawn. Murder is relative to each society. Even within societies, people cannot agree on what should or should not be murder. Killing is even more broad, since the vast majority of people might have an issue with killing people for certain reasons, they almost all make exceptions for things like self defense. And very few people use that Commandment as justification for being a vegetarian, or for being against killing animals, either big or very small. So then that brings us back to it being a Commandment against murder. However, there are huge differences in what is or isn't murder, killing that is against the law, between societies, even within some societies. Castle doctrines are used to justify what would be seen as murder in other places. (Just to preempt, I'm not commenting on my feelings on Castle doctrines, only using them as an example of our inconsistencies in murder laws.)
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    I didn't realize I was going to have to give a civics lesson today.

    Anyone's freedom ends at the point that it causes harm to another. Therefore, those are not "Freedoms".

    I guess I will have to go back to writing a god damned novel of "Disclaimers" on all posts in order for people to stop being so god damned nit picky and pathetic.
    No, that is not it at all. Contrary to what many seem to think, there are costs involved in the government issued special benefits given to marriage. The 2013 Supreme Court case on DOMA was largely based on the idea that there is a benefit in estate planning for married couples, and a corresponding costs to all of us who pay taxes at some point to cover government spending. No man is an island.
    One can not simultaneously argue that marriage laws affect only the people getting married AND demand the government benefits that cost money.
    Perhaps if you started out with a more tolerant, less self righteous, condescending attitude you might have considered that.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    No, that is not it at all. Contrary to what many seem to think, there are costs involved in the government issued special benefits given to marriage. The 2013 Supreme Court case on DOMA was largely based on the idea that there is a benefit in estate planning for married couples, and a corresponding costs to all of us who pay taxes at some point to cover government spending. No man is an island.
    One can not simultaneously argue that marriage laws affect only the people getting married AND demand the government benefits that cost money.
    Perhaps if you started out with a more tolerant, less self righteous, condescending attitude you might have considered that.
    Affecting society is not the same as harming society. While there are benefits given to couples for getting married, there are also benefits to society for them being married. Government economics just isn't as simple as if you give someone a tax break here, then that means they are costing the government money. There are other benefits that come to government from giving that tax benefit or exemption. There are also other places within our laws that would become so complicated that removing government from marriage would likely cause so many negative consequences on our society and economy that it would counter any benefits that any couple gets from marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Easier to list the ones that support SSM.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessi...e-sex_marriage

    The Episcopalian Church also supports abortion rights.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...iscopal_Church

    See a pattern here?
    Yeah, seems there is plenty of room for interpretation and practice within the many Christian sects.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Despite some beliefs, it is not required for a person to follow the Bible or believe it is the absolute truth or even inspired by God to be a Christian. All that is required is to follow the teachings of Christ.
    Which would mean they have to follow the bible. Oh and before anyone says it, Jesus said all of Gods laws still apply, so Christians can not get out of following the old testament.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not what I said. I was saying that "thou shalt not kill/murder" can be interpreted many different ways since it is so broad and does not give us any indication of where the lines are drawn. Murder is relative to each society. Even within societies, people cannot agree on what should or should not be murder. Killing is even more broad, since the vast majority of people might have an issue with killing people for certain reasons, they almost all make exceptions for things like self defense. And very few people use that Commandment as justification for being a vegetarian, or for being against killing animals, either big or very small. So then that brings us back to it being a Commandment against murder. However, there are huge differences in what is or isn't murder, killing that is against the law, between societies, even within some societies. Castle doctrines are used to justify what would be seen as murder in other places. (Just to preempt, I'm not commenting on my feelings on Castle doctrines, only using them as an example of our inconsistencies in murder laws.)
    You are using mans laws to decide what God's law means that is an exercise in futility

    and about the vegetarian thing,

    Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. -Genesis 9:3

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Which would mean they have to follow the bible. Oh and before anyone says it, Jesus said all of Gods laws still apply, so Christians can not get out of following the old testament.
    No, it doesn't mean that. They don't have to believe that the Bible is the end all, be all of who Jesus was, what his teachings were about. They don't even have to believe it accurately describes his teachings. They just have to believe in following Jesus's teachings.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, seems there is plenty of room for interpretation and practice within the many Christian sects.
    Just like there is plenty of room for politicians do debate the meaning of "is", but only the morally bankrupt ones will do it. Its very clear in the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman. If you dont like that fine, but its not following the Bible under any stretch of the imagination.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, it doesn't mean that. They don't have to believe that the Bible is the end all, be all of who Jesus was, what his teachings were about. They don't even have to believe it accurately describes his teachings. They just have to believe in following Jesus's teachings.
    His teachings are in the bible. How do you follow the teachings of Jesus without following the bible? Is there some other source of his teachings that I don't know about that somehow trumps the bible?

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