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Thread: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But then there shouldn't be the wide diversity of Christian sect that we see
    1. Just to make sure that you aren't saying this - you are no longer arguing that the position on homosexuality is up for interpretation, nor arguing that the wide variety of Christian sects that we see are due to various beliefs about the meaning of the scriptures regarding homosexuality, correct?

    2. It is precisely what we would expect. Once you get beyond the direct words of the text, how to apply them does devolve into a matter of interpretation, which well-meaning people can disagree over. Homosexuality, however, is not one of those issues - it is covered in the direct words of the text.

    If it's just the Bible, there seems, at least you are implying that, there is but one interpretation that is "right". So which sect of Christian is right? Why are the others wrong?
    my bet would be that no sect has it perfectly right, and that many have some parts more right and others more wrong relative to each other (Catholics are likely better about sticking to Jesus' teachings on divorce, Calvinists perhaps on rejecting implicit faith). Once you leave exactly what the New Testament says, you have to pray and faithfully try to apply it to questions it does not address. Heroin, for example, isn't directly addressed, but a Christian could faithfully apply the verses to treat your body as a temple, obey the laws of the land, and avoid alcohol (which is a drug) abuse to the point of drunkenness. The Bible doesn't "say" whether or not to do heroin, but Christians can say with some degree of surety what its' authors would say about whether or not to do heroin, while recognizing that they don't have the full surety because it remains an interpretation of the guidance of the Scriptures.

    That is not the case with homosexuality. The Bible there is direct and clear. For our example, it is as if the text were to say - in multiple places - "Don't do Heroin". "God doesn't want heroin in your body". "People who do heroin are screwing up, don't follow that path." It's a direct rejection. The extent to which you are interpreting the meaning of the text is pretty much shrunk to nigh-nonexistent. You really can't look at the verse that says "Do not do heroin" and "interpret" it to mean "oh, this says it's okay if we do heroin", and yet claim to be faithful to the text.
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-09-15 at 02:49 PM.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Which are? Whatever ones agree with you? Or is there a list of "correct Christians" out there?
    Easier to list the ones that support SSM.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessi...e-sex_marriage

    The Episcopalian Church also supports abortion rights.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...iscopal_Church

    See a pattern here?
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Easier to list the ones that support SSM.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessi...e-sex_marriage

    The Episcopalian Church also supports abortion rights.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ...iscopal_Church

    See a pattern here?
    Old Testament clearly does not see abortion as murder, is there something in the New Testament that changes this? I'm not familiar with the specifics on this one.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No - they do that because they decided to forego the text.
    there is no text in the Bible that says they should forbid SSM
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    there is no text in the Bible that says they should forbid SSM
    Asked and answered....Move on.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    there is no text in the Bible that says they should forbid SSM
    That is not fully correct - the Bible says instead that they should forbid active and unrepentant homosexuals, of which those seeking SSM arrangements would be a subset, and the Bible instead tells them what they should accept as far as Marriage is concerned - same sex couples not being on that list.

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is not fully correct - the Bible says instead that they should forbid active and unrepentant homosexuals, of which those seeking SSM arrangements would be a subset, and the Bible instead tells them what they should accept as far as Marriage is concerned - same sex couples not being on that list.
    No, the biblical text does not actually say any of that
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Old Testament clearly does not see abortion as murder
    That is incorrect. The Old Testament does not have a word for Abortion, but it does have a word for Miscarry. There is no instance of someone willfully miscarrying their own child, in the OT, and so nothing is listed for or against it. The closest we have is that the OT states that if a man harms a pregnant woman so as to cause a premature birth, and lasting harm (the death of the child or the death of the woman) comes from it, he would pay for that with his life.

    Throughout the Old Testament the text continually affirms that our life begins in the womb, that we have souls in the womb, and the New Testament states that we can even be touched by the Holy Spirit in the womb.

    So you could say that that form of partial-birth abortion is considered a sin (a capital one) in the Old Testament, and you can say that there may be room for ambiguity about willful miscarriage in the OT, but you definitely cannot say that "The Old Testament clearly does not see abortion as murder".

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, the biblical text does not actually say any of that
    You think that the Biblical text does not forbid homosexual conduct, or describe what marriage is supposed to be?

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    Re: Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

    Anything for good PR, I guess.

    I was all for the right to SSM, but this is pathetic.
    "I am not among those who fear the people. They and not the rich, are our dependence for continued freedom." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1816 "[F]acts are before ideas." -- Mikhail Bakunin, 1882

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