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Thread: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

  1. #541
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Not what I asked, especially in context of your previous links. There are plenty of studies that show that children of married parents are better off than children of single parents. Is there anything out there that shows whether there is a difference between parents who have a marriage certificate and those who do not, when in both cases, both parents live together and with the children?
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Not what I asked, especially in context of your previous links. There are plenty of studies that show that children of married parents are better off than children of single parents. Is there anything out there that shows whether there is a difference between parents who have a marriage certificate and those who do not, when in both cases, both parents live together and with the children?
    I was hasty so my link only responds to your 2nd question about how the legal piece of paper improves the conditions of children of married couples. Sorry about the oversight

    For an answer to your first question, see roguenuke's response (#540)
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You're the one who is arguing a straw man about children who aren't being raised by their biological parents.
    Again, you don't seem to understand the meaning of Straw man fallacy. YOU argued that studies show that children do well in gay marriage, I am pointing out that the studies you have referenced so far contain no data on the children who grow up in gay marriages so your claims are baseless. You then claimed that the studies also covered children growing up witrh only one biological parent, but the studies you clumsily referenced mention only that children in families with a non-biological father are 33% more likely to be abused.

    In other words, your evidence doesn't match your claim.
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  4. #544
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You defined moral, not moral imperative.
    One only has to define moral to demonstrate that a moral imperative has NOTHING to do with ones desire to be an Olympic athlete. Sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator
    That wasn't a right. By definition a government license can be refused so it isn't a right.
    Wrong again. From the Utah case challenging Utah's ban on SSM:
    "For months now, the action on same-sex marriage has been in the federal district courts," said Stephen Wermiel, an American University Washington College of Law professor. "With the argument in the 10th Circuit this week on the Utah law, and next week on the Oklahoma law, the same-sex marriage issue moves one step closer to the U.S. Supreme Court, where it seems inevitable that the justices will eventually have to decide whether couples of the same sex have a right to marry."
    Utah Local News - Salt Lake City News, Sports, Archive - The Salt Lake Tribune

    Clearly hetero couples had a right to marry before the SC decision, but same sex couples did not. Now they both have the right to marry, provided they meet the other restrictions that now apply to ALL couples seeking marriage. The state has the right to set certain restrictions, for instance a father cannot marry his biological daughter, but as long as you meet the states requirement you have a right to have the marriage license granted. We now simply recognize that being gay is not a reason to deny issuance of a marriage license.

    We have a right to free speech, but it has limits and some speech, such as that which creates a safety hazzard or incites to riot, is illegal and can be prosecuted.



    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator
    The "stigmatizing" nature of gay marriage isn't changed by the SCOTUS decision, sorry to break it to Justice Kennedy.

    The hospital visitation argument has always been the weakest arguments for gay marriage. You can solve that issue any number of ways without ever addressing marriage. There is no national law blocking a gay person from their partner's hospital bedside.

    The health insurance issue
    You are entitled to you erroneous opinion, but 37 states already disagreed with you, 61% of the population, numerous federal court decisions, and now the supreme court. Your side lost because it is wrong, and you're butt hurt about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator
    In case you missed it, the SCOTUS ruling was against the states ability to define marriage. Trying to argue from the states definitions of marriage at this point is crazy. The SCOTUS stripped them of the ability.
    Wrong.

    Question: Is Marriage a Civil Right?

    Answer: Recognized federal civil rights law in the United States is grounded in the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. By this standard, marriage has long been established as a civil right.

    The operative constitutional text is section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was ratified in 1868. The relevant passages read as follows:

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    The U.S. Supreme Court first applied this standard to marriage in Loving v. Virginia (1967), where it struck down a Virginia law banning interracial marriage. As Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote for the majority:
    The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men
    ...
    http://civilliberty.about.com/od/gen...ivil-Right.htm

    The right to marry has long existed, and in 1967 the supreme court ruled that states that restricted interracial marriage violated the constitution. If you thought that states had the right to define marriage in 2000, you would have been wrong to assume they lost it due to last weeks SSM ruling, because by your faulty logic, they would have actually lost the ability to define marriage in 1967 as a result of the Loving case, but apparently you thought the states still had the right to define marriage. Actually the states have always had the right to define marriage, and the supreme court gets to decide if the states definition unduly denies the right to marry under the provisions of freedom in the Constitution.

  5. #545
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Again, you don't seem to understand the meaning of Straw man fallacy. YOU argued that studies show that children do well in gay marriage, I am pointing out that the studies you have referenced so far contain no data on the children who grow up in gay marriages so your claims are baseless. You then claimed that the studies also covered children growing up witrh only one biological parent, but the studies you clumsily referenced mention only that children in families with a non-biological father are 33% more likely to be abused.

    In other words, your evidence doesn't match your claim.
    Again, the studies show that children raised in two (hetero) parent homes do better and other studies show the children of gay couples do just as well.

    I can't connect the dots for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #546
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Again, the studies show that children raised in two (hetero) parent homes do better and other studies show the children of gay couples do just as well.

    I can't connect the dots for you.
    You refuse to provide the studies that say that second part of your claim. That isn't "connecting the dots", that is called "backing up your claim".
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  7. #547
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by scatt View Post
    But it does. The argument made (by SCOTUS) was for any two people, not any two people who are not related.

    It is always interesting to see people who claim to be for equality now saying related people cannot have that equality. Really shows you that there is no marriage quality difference in republicans and democrats.
    I'll repeat what I said since you seem to try and ignore it. Let me know when you can provide the precedence otherwise. "No, it simply doesn't. Any arguments based on precedence and rights that people can invent or actually exist can do so if gay marriage never did. It leads the way to exactly ZERO types of other marriages."

    Maybe read what was actually wrote, educate yourself on this topic and understand the ruling and my statement.
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  8. #548
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    Re: Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectStorm View Post
    Polygamous Montana trio applies for wedding license

    Can't see how this can be stopped.
    It shoudlent be. I think people should be able to marry whoever and as many people as they like. All marriage is a financialy binding contract between people. Which is also why I think prostitution should be legal. Prostitution and marriage have a lot in common.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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